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You are technically correct but seem to be applying common law standards to civil law countries.

Unlike common law judiciary, civil law judiciary in and of itself has investigatory powers and judges don’t just hear arguments but can order their own investigations and are significantly more independent than in common law.

This can cut both ways, yes in theory the judge can accept evidence the prosecution obtained illegally, but the judges can also call the prosecutions bluff and call their own witnesses or order an independent expert to provide their own opinion, even if defense is unable to.


You forgot about the Nordic countries.

Scandinavian law is commonly considered to be a subcategory of civil law. Judges in Scandinavia have investigative powers and can judge the truth of the matter.

>Scandinavian law is commonly considered to be a subcategory of civil law

Their judiciaries are very different from how you describe civil law systems.

>Judges in Scandinavia have investigative powers and can judge the truth of the matter.

This is, at best, technically correct. While Judges in Nordic countries tend to technically have some limited investigative powers, it is extraordinarily unusual for them to be used in any meaningful capacity.

In reality the investigate powers wielded by judges in Nordic countries tend to be the same as in common law countries, asking a question here and there during the hearing to make sure they're keeping up.

These countries are certainly not at all like France or Spain where you might have examining magistrates, criminal investigations are run by the police and prosecutors.


Note that original discussion was discussing extraordinary unusual circumstances already.

This isn’t your average „my neighbor built a fence and damaged my tree“ case.

In such cases, the technical differences between fully adversarial common law systems and mixed-but-still-some-inquisitive-powers systems like the Nordic law matters.

And of course it is not exactly like Napoleonic law countries.

Also, the police still runs investigations, even in France. It’s just that the judges can choose to not believe the police. Famously, even if you sign a confession they can say they don’t believe it.


People in the comment asking for harsher punishment should note that we don’t know how many people selected the „I have no strong preference“ option and got assigned to group A randomly.

It’s a bit harder to make the argument that those people _explicitly_ agreed to not use LLMs.

And given how the desk-rejection logic relies on an ethical integrity argument, actual explicit intent is important.


They agreed that policy A is fine for them. Then they got assigned policy A and they were notified about this.

Police show up and arrest you. Could be with reason, could be by accident. Maybe you did something wrong, maybe you didn’t. They also physically size your servers, and in doing so they unplug the system.

If you have disk encryption, your data now requires the police to force you to produce a password, which may or may not be within their powers, depending on the jurisdiction.

It’s strictly better to have full disk encryption and remote unlocking than no disk encryption at all, because it prevents such „system was switched off by accident“ attacks.


>and in doing so they unplug the system.

They have kits that allow them to unplug the server from the wall without interrupting power supply, specifically so they don't lose the decryption keys.


Sure, but in reality I'm more interested in not letting any low paid tech dude in the DC access to my data just because it can pull a drive. Or someone who buys the server from the provider.


More reason to use encrypted memory like with AMD TSME and a deadman switch.


Except they are more sophisticated than this in the real world. They have kits to clone drives and keep power running without interrupting it


In the real real world, not all police has that or uses it in every raid. We got visited once as a group of people some ten years ago, coordinated to happen at the same time at different locations across multiple states, and at none of the locations they brought any such equipment or expert, even though both the accused crime revolved around computing and warrant specifically was for computer equipment. They asked nicely for passphrases and since we didn’t provide any they got nowhere. They even allowed us to power down some machines for them, haha.


The article was written by „Aaron Francis, Marketing Engineer“.

I’m not a language purist, but are we really calling people who work in marketing „marketing _enginners_“ nowadays?

That seems like going a bit too far with the meaning of engineering…


Some fields of engineering have long had roles with names like that.

Want to do something with motors, but don’t know how to calculate the right combination of motor, gearbox, brake, encoder and controller? Maxon’s sales engineers will happily walk you through the calculations.


I'm a software developer who was, at the time, working in a marketing role. Happy to answer questions.


I feel it’s an evolution of the term “Devrel” which still feels tacky.

Nor would you want someone who built most of their career as an actual engineer to suddenly drop that term and become a generic someone in “marketing”. They’re more than that for sure.

I quite like the terminology the more I think about it.

https://github.com/aarondfrancis


Totally. An engineer, who (at the the time) works in marketing! Makes sense to me :D


Well the "software" folks started it, I met a full stack engineer the other day, that word used to have some meaning as well.


"Full stack" grinds my gears, too. Do they really work from sand to human factors?


I hate sand


If you don't need global access, I have found that Geoblocking is the best first step. Especially if you are in a small country with a small footprint and you can get away at blocking the rest of the world. But even if you live in the US, excluding Russia, India, Iran and a few others will cut your traffic by double digit percent.

In the article, quite a few listed sources of traffic would simply be completely unable to access the server if the author could get away with a geoblock.


This makes me a little sad. There's an ideal built into the Internet, that it has no borders, that individuals around the world can connect directly. Blocking an entire geographic region because of a few bad actors kills that. I see why it's done, but it's unfortunate


You can't make the argument that it's a small group of bad actors. It's quite a massive group of unrelentingly malicious actors


I read it as small compared to total population affected by the block


But that’s not the case either. A large attack or scrape generates far more traffic than legitimate users.


Massive in terms of money and power, small in terms of souls


It's not because of a few bad actors, it's because of a hostile or incompetent government.

Every country has (at the very least) a few bad actors, it's a small handful of countries that actively protect their bad actors from any sort of accountability or identification.


To be fair most of my bad traffic is from the US.


I mean if that's the case, the conversation obviously changes.


I know what you mean.

But the numbers don't lie. In my case, I locked down to a fairly small group of European countries and the server went down from about 1500 bot scans per day down to 0.

The tradeoff is just too big to ignore.


Reminds me of when 4chan banned Russia entirely to stop DDOSes. I can't find it but there was a funny post from Hiro saying something like "couldn't figure out how to stop the ddos. Banned Russia. Ddos ended. So Russia is banned. /Shrug"


Similarly, for my e-mail server, I manually add spammers into my exim local_sender_blacklist a single domain at a time. About a month into doing this, I just gave up and added * @* .ru and that instantly cut out around 80% of the spam e-mail.

It's funny observing their tactics though. On the whole, spammers have moved from bare domain to various prefixes like @outreach.domain, @msg.domain, @chat.domain, @mail.domain, @contact.domain and most recently @email.domain.

It's also interesting watching the common parts before the @. Most recently I've seen a lot of marketing@, before that chat@ and about a month after I blocked that chat1@. I mostly block *@domain though, so I'm less aware of these trends.


We've had a similar discussion at my work. E-commerce that only ships to North America. So blocking anyone outside of that is an option.

Or I might try and put up Anubis only for them.


Be slightly careful with commerce websites, because GeoIP databases are not perfect in my experience.

I got accidentally locked out from my server when I connected over Starlink that IP-maps to the US even though I was physically in Greece.

As a practical advice, I would use a blocklist for commerce websites, and allowlist for infra/personal.


There is a small OTC medical device that is about $60 in the US, quadruple the price in my country. I tried to order one to be sent to a US family member's house, who was coming the following month to visit. However I could not order because I was not in the US.

In the end I found another online store, paid $74, and got the device. So the better store lost the sale due to blocking non-US orders.

I don't know how much of a corner case this is.


That's a good point! I'll probably start with a blocklist.


Just keep in mind, that could block legit users who are outside the country. One case being someone traveling and wanting to buy something to deliver home. Another case being a non-resident wanting to buy something to send to family in the service zone.

I'm not saying don't block, just saying be aware of the unintended blocks and weigh them.


Also consider tourists outside of their home country. If, eg I'm in Indonesia when Black Friday hits and I'm trying to buy things back home and the site is blocked; shit. I mean, personally I can just use my house as as a VPJ exit node thanks to Tailscale, but most people aren't technical enough to do that.


Great comment - thank you.


Laws are not enforced by machines, but by humans.

The answer to all of those is "yes" and they will not bother to find them, they will ask you to list them. Omitting information or providing false information on your visa application is a felony.

It's the same logic as behind the "Are you a terrorist?" question. Lying is itself a crime, and can be used to prosecute you in the future.


I think the point to many of those questions/requirements are to ensure absolutely everyone can be prosecuted or deported because it's basically impossible to complete the immigration process or just about any other complicated government process without doing something that could possibly be construed in the most uncharitable way as being answered incorrectly.


"You failed to tell us that you made a single post on an obscure forum 4.5 years ago that questioned if capitalism was truly a good system, have fun being deported to a random country, you communist"


I've quoted Marx on HN on more than one occasion. I'm not sure they'd like my social media profile, despite having also been consistent in arguing for liberal freedoms that the US used to like to claim to favour.

I've visited the US many times, but I have no intention of going back under the current regime.

I transited through China earlier this year, and I frankly felt less concerned doing that - despite having criticised the Chinese government online many times over the years - than I would feel about entering the US at this point.


Since when was any of this arbitrary stuff "law"? It's just rules the executive branch is making up.


You used to be asked "Are you a gunrunner?", we all had to lie about that.


Seems to be down...


It's a one-man Search engine developed and hosted in the EU.

If you read his about page, it is basically an anti-centralization anti-ad anti-spyware attempt at websearch. It is also "The project is independent in that it has no loans, no investors looking for a payday, no strings attached anywhere to pressure it into doing anything than providing as much and as good internet search as it is capable of."

It not indexing NYT seems precisely on brand.


It does index bits of NYT, but coverage is pretty spotty outside of their archives. They put a lot of crawler countermeasures up on their main site (which I guess is fair, they have a business to run), but author biographies are generally accessible, including Ezra's[1].

Though since the search engine doesn't really apply much in terms of domain authority, this doesn't rank very highly, the websites that talk about Ezra Klein rank higher.

[1] https://marginalia-search.com/search?query=site%3Anytimes.co...


There is a middle ground there. I self-host, was not at all affected today nor would I be if Google, MS, Cloudfare or any of the big ones go down. But I cannot easily access my server because it is locked in a datacenter 1000 km away.

But it is a bare metal server from Hetzner auction that I got for cheap and it now hosts an entire family&friends cloud for 10-ish people.


Note, they don’t earn money from users. They earn money from advertisers.

This is important because if it was advertisers, it would be much easier for UK to have actual power over them, since the UK business actually would be under UK jurisdiction.


4chan gets money by selling (with crypto) "passes" to their users. These passes allow users to post using VPNs. Being banned in the UK will increase demand for these passes, probably increasing 4chan's revenue over all.


You can buy passes with a regular credit card


Not these days. If you go through the process of buying one, crypto will be the only option given.


>Note, they don’t earn money from users. They earn money from advertisers.

It doesn’t matter. They loose the audience - they loose advertising revenue. The only difference is that UK cannot seize the money to collect the fine (the fine now is the price of the return ticket), but the fine wasn’t big anyway and complete loss of the market has bigger economic consequences. UK doesn’t have power over US corporation, but they have power over their distribution channel and they have full sovereign right to exercise that power.


That assumes UK deploys technical measures to prevent their own citizens from accessing the website, which costs more political capital than fining a corporation. Or makes it illegal to access the site, which is even more unpopular.

The difference is significant.


Realistically, UK is a big market for 4chan, but is 4chan big enough for UK? What share of its 70M+ population will flip their vote because of this specific case? How many people will just switch to Reddit or something else and won’t even connect that block to any political party?


No, it really isn't. Plus the free advertising this gets them will be worth more than any market other than the US.


If they hope that they will get more audience from elsewhere because of this, it certainly explains all the circus.


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