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I see what you did there


Google is rejecting it to ensure incoming messages aren't spam. SHOULD means "you should do this unless you have a really, really good reason not to." Do they have a good reason not to? It doesn't seem so, meaning Viva is in the wrong here.


No, SHOULD is defined in the RFC, not by colloquial usage. Google is on the wrong, regardless of their "safety" intent.

After all, linguistics is full with examples of words that are spelled the same, but have different meaning in different cultures. I'm glad the RFC spelled it out it for everyone.


The RFC says a SHOULD is to be treated like a MUST, but well-justified exceptions are allowed.


RFC speak requires you to think for a while about skipping a SHOULD. It doesn't require strong justification.


When producing a message, it SHOULD have the id. With or withot it is compliant.

On the other end, we may receive messages with or without. Both are valid. We MUST therefore accept both variations.

The second one is a consequence of the former. So yes Google is the violating party.


No it doesnt lmao. It's quoted all over this thread and clearly is not in any way like a MUST


if Google's choices are protecting users, they can't be in the wrong. That's the reality of a shared communications infrastructure regardless of what the docs say.

When the docs disagree with the reality of threat-actor behavior, reality has to win because reality can't be fooled.


Spam senders don’t have pseudorandom number generators?


They're more likely to put in the least amount of effort or care the least about the reasons how the header is used later on.


Why do I get the feeling that if the answer is that they're polluting more as well, parent will argue that makes it OK for the US, as if we should be following their lead. But if the answer is they're making progress on lowering emissions, he'll argue the opposite?


I don't know if you've been paying attention lately, but the US Government is very hands on when it comes to directing businesses these days, and Congress lets the President do whatever he wants, whether strictly legal or not.

Do you really not think the current President wouldn't lean as hard on a US corporation as he needed to in order to get whatever he wanted?


Many, many Americans are in denial about how shockingly the country has fallen. It's just staggering at this point seeing Americans, of all people, warning about Chinese ties with business.

I remember everyone fear-mongering because some business member in China had ties with the Communist party. The US is literally commissioning executives from tech companies in the armed forces (https://www.npr.org/2025/07/03/1255164460/1a-army-07-03-2025), business leaders like Elon Musk literally became members of the administration while many more (Larry Ellison, Peter Thiel, among many others) are defacto mouthpieces of this administration. Trump is exerting absolute, unchecked, utterly lawless power to do whatever he wants whenever he wants, while occasionally looting those very companies for various kickbacks.

The US is currently an international shame, and a shame to 240+ years of its history. It is an abomination compared to all of its historic values and laws and checks. And anyone blind to this, yet still pointing at China, is intellectually defective.


But don't worry, us middle aged people are definitely immune.


Hahaha, I’m 35. Ut I feel myself getting crazier every day for sure… but at least I try and stay away from too much brain rot…


I thought that was weird too. Surely this is a breach of whatever licensing they agreed to with the free trial. Are they allergic to getting paid for their work?


I already pay for Google One storage, so it's the cheapest of the paid LLMs for me. That's 99% of the reason I use it, and honestly I don't really have any strong opinions on it compared to ChatGPT. It's about the same level, and with new models constantly being released for all the different LLMs I've kind of lost track of what it's particularly good or bad at compared to others.

I will say the video with Gemini live is pretty impressive. My family and I tried it a bit yesterday, and my kids wanted to show Gemini all our pets. My kid showed it our cat, picking it up roughly as she is wont to do, and I was impressed when it asked "Is [name of cat] always so patient being handled like that?"


> I already pay for Google One storage, so it's the cheapest of the paid LLMs for me. That's 99% of the reason I use it, and honestly I don't really have any strong opinions on it compared to ChatGPT

I'm on a ChatGPT pro plan, been using it for a good while but got an offer on Google One storage so tried it out for a month. Google's models are far behind compared to OpenAI's, and seemingly o1 Pro Mode is still the best out there, albeit slow obviously. But probably the model I've got furthest with on difficult problems, and even the "simpler" models from OpenAI are still better than Gemma 2.5.

It does seem that Google has better tooling available for their models though, so a combination of the tooling of Google with the models of OpenAI would probably be optimal, but unlikely we'll see that happen.


how long ago? i think 2.5 exp is better than o1 or o3-mini in my experience.


Many still have the kitchens, but the two in my hometown rarely cook from scratch anymore. I live in a small 5k person town in North Carolina, and recently got involved with the school PTO. And the cafeteria is basically just heating up premade meals these days.


That is really sad. :(


I've been saying the same thing about Tesla for years, but here we are. The market can stay irrational blah blah blah


Well now that the Donald is running the US and is about to cut subsidies for electric vehicles, add tariffs to aluminum and steel, now maybe the markets may see the light, I am not holding my breath though.


Steel and aluminum tariffs will hit all car manufacturers simultaneously.


If all cars are more expensive, and all manufacturers have lower margins Tesla will have lower margins too. For the stock price the competition won't be other car manufacturers but other industries.

It would be a "subsiding tide lowers all boats" kind of thing.


I've been thinking, when I younger and living in the UK, all sorts of things (including some with the word "tax" in them) were denounced by the local right wing as "stealth taxes".

Trump is talking about tariffs as if they're a tax on non-Americans, but they're paid for by Americans who import stuff, which is basically all Americans given where your oil, aluminium, and steel come from.

Those tariffs are a stealth tax.


Tesla- being more vertically integrated- stands to benefit from disproportionately increased costs for its competitors


Just because costs are higher for its competition doesn't mean that people are going to be buying more Teslas. Last I checked, Tesla was already down 40-60% in sales at its major European markets. They're getting absolutely slaughtered by BYD in China.


I mean as long as people are still buying cars, Tesla becomes more cost competitive. But in the short run it's not for consumers as much as it is for investors.

You may be right that Tesla will struggle internationally and the car market as a whole will struggle in USA


Cutting subsidies would weaken Tesla's competitors (according to Musk)


My family's last name was probably Schaefer in Germany. The earliest graves in America show them as Scheffert instead but shortly after they became "Shuford" which I guess they thought sounded more English (they were here pre-Revolution).

I always find it funny they did such a bad job of anglicizing it. Shuford doesn't really sound any more English to my ears.


Ha, that's a funny one -- Shuford is an unusual one. If they'd gone with "Shefford", it would have sounded 100% Anglicized:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shefford,_Bedfordshire


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