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If nuking Japan wasn't necessary and excessive then why didn't they surrender after the first nuke was dropped?

3-days is a pretty short time for such a major shift in politics for starters. Would a 3rd or 4th have been justified in the 6 day gap before their August 15th surrender announcement if the US had had them available?

Also the justification for the second bomb, that it was required to demonstrate it wasn't a one off doesn't require the that bomb be dropped on a second city either. The main thrust isn't that the bombs weren't effective it's that the extreme nature of the act requires extreme justification bordering on it being the only option but for a bloody home island invasion. See my other long posts about the anti-moral-bomb argument in this thread, I don't want to duplicate them here to avoid spamming the thread.


Communications between Hiroshima and Tokyo had totally broken down. When input was received on what actually happened, it would have been so fantastic that it would have been hard to process. And this was at a time where the Bolsheviks-hard to understate the Imperial Japanese government's loathing and horror of Communism despite the pragmatic and often deeply mutually cynical relationship they had during the war-were about to go to war with them.

This comment[0] on HN from a while back marks the parallels between the two situations very clearly.

It's very frustrating talking about this subject with Americans online[1]. In general they seem to have blinders on regarding the magnitude of the consequences of their democratic choice in leadership.

I get a sense that a feeling of learned helplessness has beset the American people and that they're not able to imagine a world of agency and action against authoritarianism.

I don't know what can shake them out of their torpor, but I do know that the longer they take to wake up the higher the price of action will be.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43485649#43487443

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49403201


> It's very frustrating talking about this subject with Americans online[1]. In general they seem to have blinders on regarding the magnitude of the consequences of their democratic choice in leadership.

If polls are to be believed, the majority of Americans do not, in fact, fit that description.


If the elections are to believed, a majority of Americans don't care enough to vote against Trump.

They won’t have that sort of moment of self reflection until someone does something like use Flock infrastructure to stalk and assassinate the CEO of another YC company and then it will only be brief and fleeting before they double down on supporting this kind of egregious behaviour.

Some people are just wired that way.


I say these people should not be in charge of choosing who gets insane amounts of money and networking opportunities

They should not be in charge of anything, but being a sociopath gets you obscene amounts of money and puts you in charge of all sorts of things.

I wish this was just an anecdote rather than an axiom.

Let's just use Flock cameras to track all top-level YC people, publish everything we possibly can. Absolutely and utterly eliminate their privacy until they learn to respect ours.

The last paragraph of this article mentions some work by UofT researchers to investigate how Canadian digital infrastructure is dependent on American infrastructure for the purposes of surveillance.

I believe the link below is from those researchers:

https://ixmaps.ca/


The implication of what you're saying is that pathological liars and perpetual grifter snake oil salesmen types aren't intelligent.

> All it can do is get exposed to specific examples, and learn that we don't like that.

I've heard it said that prison rehabilitation programs for prisoners diagnosed with psychopathy that are based around exposing them empathy for the victim are counter-productive. Apparently programs that teach these people to think about the consequences of their actions and how they're detrimental to their own personal well-being lower recidivism rates in this particular kind of group.


> The implication of what you're saying is that pathological liars and perpetual grifter snake oil salesmen types aren't intelligent.

No, I don't think that is the implication. I think you're making the "if all x's are y's, all y's are x's" mistake. I am saying LLMs cannot be moral because they don't have a mind, actual intelligence, or the ability to experience consequences. That doesn't mean that anything immoral is unintelligent.


the implication is drive and impulse to behave a certain way doesn't come from "intelligence"

Yes and no.

If your buddy leaves his car parked at the top of a hill without the parking brake on and it rolls down the hill and side-swipes a bunch of vehicles and narrowly misses an elderly person walking by with a cane someone could easily say:

"Dude wtf is wrong with you, you left your car parked on the top of a hill with no brake and let it roll into traffic"

The phrasing doesn't absolve the offender of their negligent behaviour and the consequences of it.

The only thing thing does is the lack of action from regulators and society writ large.

Our lack of action is what allows people like Sam Altman and Dario and the irresponsible people who choose to work for them to be continue to be negligent.


> Hacker News is owned by Y Combinator, an American venture capital firm heavily invested in surveillance tech. Their moderators have time to remove our posts for copy-pasting small amounts of text but not to remove years of libel and harassment. Perhaps it's time for legal action.

I'd like to hear more about this story.


What do you think is the biggest blocker to governments successfully regulating these kinds of things?

Konrad Zuse also seems to have been a pioneer in the concept of self-replication and self assembly.

Check out this cool crank-powered self-assembling tower thing that he made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odwgpKRnWM8&t=1s

And his work on self replication: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxv4vDMOFCo

I know very little about Zuse or his work and I lament that this museum is closing down as I am moving to Europe next year and had intended to use the opportunity to research his work.

Neil Gershenfeld has a quip that "computer science is the worst thing to happen to both computers and science because it prematurely froze the model of computation around 1950s designs' and I think there's some truth to this. The resource limitations that Zuse experienced in Germany during the depression and war that forced him down a design path of mechanical design over electromechanical and exposed him to the more fundamental idea that computation is ultimately a physical process -- 'there's no such thing as software just different states of hardware'. I have a feeling that the next big technological revolution will be based around self-replicating machines that more fully unify computation with matter.


Human shaped things that emit cellphone signals is a cheap and effective target profile for this kind of attack.


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