Great writing! Always love to see insights from real experiences.

- Declarative over Imperative.

- Schema as the Single source of truth.

I share the same beliefs and created ZenStack(https://zenstack.dev) on top of Prisma.

Vercel now owns all three major full-stack frameworks: Next.js, Svelte, and Nuxt. Do you think it’s good or bad for the ecosystem?

I wonder what their game plan is

> Authenticity mattered more than production value.

Thanks for sharing this authentic story! As an ex-MSFT in a relatively small product line that only started switching to Git from SourceDepot in 2015, right before I left, I can truly empathize with how incredible a job you guys have done!

Yeah, it was a whole journey. I can't believe it happened. Thanks for your comment.

Thank you! Btw, it reminds me of the book "Showstopper" about the journey of releasing Windows NT; highly recommended!

Thanks for the recommendation! I was just about to reread "Soul Of A New Machine", but will try Showstopper instead, since it sounds to be the same genre.

tangentially, if you like that genre one of my favourite books in it is "where wizards stay up late", about the development of the internet.

I spent a lot of time coaching people out of source depot, it was touch and go there for a while. It was worth it though thank you for Your effort.

I didn't realize the title was changed. Who did this?

I found a practical way to foster critical thinking skills and encourage independent thought at the end of Netflix's documentary, The Social Dilemma:

> I follow people on Twitter that I disagree with because I want to be exposed to different points of view.

Here is another good opportunity for it.

Congratulations on the launch! That’s really an innovative way to enforce tenant isolation. Curious to hear people’s toughts on another interesting approach:

https://zenstack.dev/blog/multi-tenant#innovative-approach

Looks cool! May I ask why you created this product and made it open-source? Do you have plans to turn it into a commercial business?

There is no commercial plan for the time being

It feels like the entire JavaScript world seems overly influenced by e-commerce, pushing all kinds of optimization, even including RSC and SSR. As a former SaaS builder, I deeply resonate with the author's point:

"I care way more about the speed at which I ship features, and all that complexity becomes a burden on my dev team."

This is exactly why I started building ZenStack(https://zenstack.dev) toolkit. The goal is to brings simplicity back to building SaaS applications, using whatever framework you like.

Some feedback on the page: I found the intro blurb[1] a bit off-putting with all the corporatese. Namely "supercharging to unlock potential" gives an instant BS vibe.

Don't know how it looks like for other audiences, but I'd guess e.g. HN audience on average do not like it. Just use the space to say what it actually is and does?

It's definitely not the worst offender, and that's probably why I wanted to give the feedback.

[1] "A TypeScript toolkit that supercharges Prisma ORM with a fine-grained Authorization layer, auto-generated type-safe APIs/hooks to unlock its full potential for full-stack development."

Thank you for the kind and thoughtful feedback! The change has been made.

Very good now, thanks!

That's just the React world which, granted, is the majority of the JavaScript world.

Over here in Angular land not much has been happening. Ok, we have signals now, but that's about it.

If you want simplicity, use htmx and your backend framework of choice.

My 2c on the whole React and complexity situation: it's not great, but at the same time it's not as bad as someone people make it sound.

Things _can_ be done in a simple way. The issue with React is that it's just a library, and there's some gaps it leaves that companies like Vercel tried to fill (and abused, but that's another topic). So then you get a bunch of new-ish developers who haven't even properly learned react throwing in a bunch of random libraries they also don't fully understand how to use, and you end up with a shit soup. Not because the ingredients are bad, but simply because the cook didn't know how to use them.

I've seen people abuse React. I've seen people abuse Redux (and extensions). Even with there being ample resources for both.

People want to try to be creative withou planning ahead, and then things happen and the business wants to go on, but devs are rarely given time to integrate and apply stuff they learned from previous mistakes, etc.

So while some of the problems are technological in nature, I think the biggest problem is not the technology itself, but how it's combined with inexperienced developers

With that said, I'm also a big fan of designing APIs that are easy to use, and difficult to misuse. React has areas of the API which fail on both of those principles though (I hink some of which they want to address with the React Compiler)

I was building a big monolith angular (v8 at the time) app a few years ago and I think my old coworkers from that job would get a laugh from hearing me reminisce about it!

Angular is actually very nicely laid out as a front end framework. I’m finding the modern react ecosystem more obtuse than old angular apps.

>×Over here in Angular land not much has been happening. Ok, we have signals now, but that's about it.

I'd put its quietness (relative quietness and least) forward as one of its redeeming features and an example of its stability.

I joke that this is the framework of choice for people with children. You can be out of the workforce for a year and still everything is mostly the same when you come back.

Also it keeps all the thrill chasers out, which is very helpful in delivering things on time and within budget.

Of course it would be better if we had some creature comforts like fast compilation times and good performance by default, but not at the cost of introducing the sort of chaos the React people live and breathe.

I dunno why HN likes to hate on angular. Its an amazing, batteries-included framework where you don't have analysis-paralysis from 100 different choices, easy to pick-up and learn, CONSISTENT, quite performant and doesn't break your build from year to year. (or month to month like some other HN-loved frameworks)

React terrifies me. Nothing is consistent. Everything is always a little broken and maintenance is painful. This has been my anecdotal experience doing maintenance work on 3 diff React projects.

Framework of current project uses Vue and Vuetify - and its been a very pleasant experience. It was the easiest framework to pick up and get going amongst the three. (Though Angular is still the most stolidly consistent framework)

Ah! Another js framework that will fix problems of all the previous ones… great…

No, I write my hobby websites to work without JavaScript.

jQuery isn't a framework. As a library it's still precious.

I don't think that distinction is key to the insinuation

I got the tribal insinuation.

phew! perfect

I mean, the potential always exist, but I would rather avoid much JS at all and only use a minimal amount of it, which is usually not what JS frameworks intend to let you do.

That’s what I do. I write my hobby websites to be functional without any JavaScript.

Thanks for sticking with us and help to improve it!

Great one , thanks for sharing!