France seems to work. They have plenty of nuclear power that is flexible. And you can have other forms of consumption flexibility; otherwise wind and solar are really in trouble.
France uses their own and their neighbors fossil capacity to manage nuclear inflexibility.
When a cold spell hits France exports turn to imports.
Now EDF is crying about renewables lowering nuclear earning potential and increasing maintenance costs.
The problem is that they are up against economic incentives. Why should a company or person with solar and storage buy grid based nuclear power? They don’t.
Why should they not sell their excess to their neighbors? They do.
French nuclear is more flexible than coal by design and as flexible as many older gas plants with ALFC system. They can reach up to 0.5%/second modulation (proved by Philipsburg) if the situation requires but it's rarely the case if you have a fleet. It's still not as fast as BWR's that can reach 1%/second but german coal is the slowest load follower and still meets min requirements imposed by the grid.
"When a cold spell hits France exports turn to imports." - was true in the past, a bit, but afaik this and last winter France was net exporting a ton. And with FLA3 reaching full capacity this year it'll be even less of a problem. It's not like they have a problem now, they are the largest net exporter on the continent and it's unlikely to change soon.
"Now EDF is crying about renewables lowering nuclear earning potential and increasing maintenance costs." - yes, because ren generation is acting like a parasitic source without proper BESS deployments - they eat into firm power profits without providing firm power benefits.
"Why should a company or person with solar and storage buy grid based nuclear power? They don’t." - because in many places of the world solar+bess are not sufficient. It's also the reason why Microsoft signed a contract for TMI way above market prices instead of building a fully offgrid ren solution
EDF is selling power to neighbors and makes money from it. It also is modulating it's npp a lot, which will maybe change when AC's will be more widely deployed and EV's will expand. It also is trying to schedule most maintenance works in summer, during lowest demand periods
Which are paragraph after paragraph agreeing that nuclear power is inflexible, can’t meet a true grid load on its own without flexibility and that renewables craters the earning potential of both existing and new built reactors.
As EDF will be able to sell fewer and fewer hours at a profit we will likely see them crying for handouts to even maintain the existing plants. Let alone new builds requiring 18-24 cent/kWh average prices to cover the costs.
Who is agreeing that nuclear is inflexible? RTE real generation data is a direct proof it's false.
EDF needs no handouts for maintenance of their reactors. But I'm eager to see their profits evolution in 2026 H1 after arenh got ditched.
There will be some govt loans for EPR2, but the amount is rather tiny if we compare to say German EEG fund.
The proposed subsidies for the EPR2 program is 11 cents kWh and interest free loans. Sum freely, but you end up towards 20 cents kWh.
Why always the German comparison? Who even brought up Germany Can’t the nuclear handouts stand on their own?
The EEG costs are quickly going down as expensive early projects are losing their subsidies.
Renewables and storage are built in massive amounts all over the world without subsidies.
Why this completely one sided focus on absolutely massive handouts for the electricity sector, which is already solved by renewables and storage for the 99% of the cases when we still need to decarbonize industry, agriculture, construction, aviation, maritime shipping etc?
It makes absolutely and sounds like a solution looking for a problem, with a bunch of people who can’t let go attached to it.
It is the fax machine of the internet age. It is time to let go.
Yes, epr2 will get some state loans and cfds, if approved by EC.
I brought up Germany because it's a famous example of lots of subsidies going into transition/deployment
EEG costs are projected to rise per EWI because even though most expensive contracts are being over, it's paid more frequently. It's projected nr will reach 23bn/y.
"which is already solved by renewables and storage for the 99% of the cases" - it's not solved by far in Europe unless you add something on top, eg. Gas firming.
It's interesting to say nuclear is a fax machine in the internet age when nuclear is our youngest invention to extract energy while solar/wind/hydro are much older. Such arguments make no sense whatsoever
France is part of the EU power grid and flexibility comes from that not from nuclear power plants.
And the government had to rise the subsidies for nuclear energy to prevent higher rises of the energy prices. The costs for the consumers still raised.
And their power plants were in trouble in the last hot summer because the rivers were too hot to be used for cooling. Won‘t be the last time. And that will be a big problem when people turn on their AC in a heat wave but the power plants can’t power up because they don’t have enough cool water.
And that was before drone wars were a thing.
People react nervously when unknown drones fly around airports and power plants.
And didn’t we learn from the internet that centralization is a bad thing? Nuclear power plants are exactly that.
Imagine a grid where every consumer is also a producer who can satisfy their energy needs at least partially for themselves even without the grid. Try to blackout that.
"And their power plants were in trouble in the last hot summer" - blatant lie. Cooling was fine, it's env protection law to avoid damaging the fauna(read - to not boil fish). Yet, it affects about 0.02% of annual generation and valid almost exclusively to NPP without cooling towers. Yet in those exact periods EDF was net exporting about 14GW to neighbors, again, data is public. French nukes can handle ppl's AC's just well, probably EDF even hopes for that to modulate their npp less and get more $
"And didn’t we learn from the internet that centralization is a bad thing? Nuclear power plants are exactly that." France has a combination of centralized and decentralized power - npp's are distributed around the country but each can generate a lot of power. Even more distribution and you start paying a ton for transmission lines and maintenance. That's the reason Germany started subsidizing them from this year, with about 6bn/y. Full decentralization is not a feature and you still can't achieve it since transmission system is centralized, prime example being recent cascade blackout in Spain.
"Imagine a grid where every consumer is also a producer who can satisfy their energy needs at least partially for themselves even without the grid. Try to blackout that." - that'll mean having to need a fully parallel grid for firming. Besides, a lot of home solar are grid followers - if there's a blackout, it'll shut down too unless you have a special invertor+bess which many dont have (yet)
"And that was before drone wars were a thing." - a drone would do nothing to a NPP. Even an airplane impact can be tolerated depending how new is the NPP.
1- not being able to cool reactors physically, which is false
2- being a major deal, when it affects only 0.2% of generation per year, during a period when EDF is net exporting about 14GW to the neighbors
3- being an unfixable issue, which is again false. The problem exista for reactors without cooling towers. EDF can fix it by building them. But there's no financial incentive here. Where would EDF sell extra power when export is already maximized in that same timeframe and market prices in summer are low?
Now you are being mean, or are engaging in discussions to spread misinformation
"And their power plants were in trouble in the last hot summer because the rivers were too hot to be used for cooling" - this does imply that cooling was not possible. You said nothing about the fact it's just a legal limit. Nor did you specify what/how many NPP exactly got modulated. Is "their" supposed to mean all? A bunch?
"And that will be a big problem when people turn on their AC in a heat wave but the power plants can’t power up because they don’t have enough cool water." - this implies it's both a major problem during heatwaves and/or that it's unfixable, both being false.
"> being a major deal, when it affects only 0.2% of generation per year
Interesting choice of time period. Energy problems are rarely viewed from a yearly perspective." - did you omit on purpose LITERALLY the following text "during a period when EDF is net exporting about 14GW to the neighbors" ? France is largest net exporter on the continent both yearly and in summer in particular. You are free to inspect energy charts data.
"That time and money can be used for decentralization." - french generation is already sufficiently decentralized. They can decentealize even more by building more plants across the country.
"Drones will get cheaper and cheaper and more capable and many nuclear power plants aren’t built for that threat" - nuclear plants are built or upgraded to withstand airplane impacts, a drone would barely scratch the outer reinforced concrete.
All your statements are either made on purpose to mislead (especially considering how you dismiss your own statements or omit crucial parts of text quoting me) or you are communicating your thoughts in a very unoptimal way...
The AGRs are advanced reactors that use an inert coolant, CO2. In fact they have been designed to cool down quicker than any credible loss of coolant. And have been in service since the 70s, with some slated to go on until 2030.
I seem to recall that is a problem with Switzerland too; people can be refused citizenship by bureaucracy at the local level. Yet people still flock there (perhaps because of the money).
Switzerland's draw is the money. It's true that a significant proportion of the population is foreign born, but the whole country is smaller than some tier 2 cities in China and many foreigners do not stay longterm. If China paid Swiss-level salaries there would be more people going for sure, but the country is so big that at a relative level I'm not sure if the proportion would change significantly
It's funny how useful water is for power generation.
There's heat storage as discussed here.
Or you can store cold water in a reservoir as a giant battery, pumping it up high when you've got excess power, and letting it back down to generate hydroelectricity from it later.
Or you can boil water to make steam that spins a turbine and use it to convert anything that can heat water (coal, oil, nuclear...) to electricity.
> It's funny how useful water is for power generation.
It's gravity that does the generation. Water is convenient because it's weight per unit of volume is very high. Higher than most things we can get our hands on and it's also exceptionally safe.
Since water isn't perfectly clean the main problem you face is corrosion. Which can take a great system and turn it into a nightmare of buried leaks and sudden problems.
As far as our options go it _is_ really convenient.
And maybe it's obvious, but the largest thing that makes water so useful is that on our planet it's usually liquid but has easy to reach boiling and freezing points. Most notably a boiling point that is easily withstood by most metals and trivially reached by most methods of heating. Chemically something like quartz would work just fine, but its heating and boiling point are way too high to be practical. Occasionally we do reach for molten salts like lithium chloride
In the UK there was a unfortunate trend of ripping out these energy storage devices and replacing hot water tanks with on demand electric hot water heating ( only heat the water you need ). And new builds often have no tanks ( as it saves space in the new tiny homes ).
Very short sighted in my view - a very simple way to store energy and everyone uses hot water directly.
They don't work well with heat pumps. Heat pumps lose efficiency as the differential increases, so if you try to store heat in a tank, you quickly drop capacity and efficiency.
Versus resistance, which is exactly as efficient at 0°C and 1000°C, and why those storage heaters used to make sense.
(And storage is directly proportional to temperature differential above interior ambient)
Home hot water heating in the UK with heat pumps is about 250-300% efficient (slightly lower than the efficiency of home heating but still much better than resistive).
No one is storing 1000C water at home.
It is true that the temperature deltas affects efficiency. You can use the thermocline to draw from the cooler lower portion of the storage tank to push this further. Or less technically, just a bigger tank, though this has some tradeoffs.
In warmer countries they are set up differently can act as free air conditioning by extracting heat from indoor air at the same time as heating water.
Right, but UK has/had "storage heaters" which were bricks with nichrome wire. They would heat the bricks really hot during cheap electricity times, and use that heat the rest of the day.
Every air-to-water heat pump install will have a hot water tank. So I'm not sure why "don't work well" is the term used.
It is true that heat pumps coefficient of performance drops as the output temperature increases. So you need a proportionally larger hot water tank to store the same amount of energy. So it is fair to say there are tradeoffs. But hot water storage is still a necessary part of most heat pump installs - because peak output of heat pumps tends to be below the heat demand of showers.
1. No, absolutely not. Why would you settle for COP=1 when you can have COP>1?
2. The electrical to heat conversion efficiency is indeed 100% regardless of the temperature of the resistor. And if you're putting out 1000W, then all input losses are also identical. If you put a 1000W light bulb in the middle of your room, or 2 of them but run both at 500W, you'll get EXACTLY the same heat output in your room, but the single bulb is much hotter.
1. Are there not scenarios where it drops below 1?
The stats for them always seem optimistic scenarios given what i hear from people during winter cold spell in houses that aren't absolutely perfectly insulated.
If your water term needs to remain above 70C and it's starts freezing hard outside during winter when that COP starts to matter the most for example.
Older heat pumps had max temperature limits and did often have resistance heaters to get that last push above 60C. Modern household heat pumps will reach 75C while staying above 100% efficient and can skip the resistance heater.
This is partly due to a change in the refrigerant used.
> Modern household heat pumps will reach 75C while staying above 100% efficient and can skip the resistance heater.
Is this adequately maintained even as temperatures drop?
I was recently considering getting a heatpump in addition to my gas installation but I assume I need to go for more than a bit better than resistance heating during winter for that investment to make sense.
It mostly leaks and such.
Limescale buildup is also a small issue for their efficiency and more so if they run hot.
If we reduced it to a simple input output calculation that would never be an issue except for some speed of transfer.
it also reduces peak load - you can heat water up slower with a lower powered heater. I have a 35 liter warm water tank in my garden shed that pulls about 3.5kw - an equivalent on demand heater would need 14kw or more.
You can get things like cheaper overnight tariffs when the demand is lower - if you have some sort of storage system - like a hot water tank - in effect the electricity company is distributing some of that smoothing function to things like hot water tanks, storage heaters or batteries.
If you have your own solar ( either direct solar water heating, or solar electricity generation ), the hot water tank is a simple, cheap, reliable energy store.
Sure capacity isn't that great - but pretty much every house in the UK used to have one, so it adds up.
Houses in the UK typically have 100A supply and the whole local grid is sized assuming people use relatively small amounts of electricity. If everyone gets an electric car and a massive heat pump, lots of local transmission will need upgrading
Right but unless everyone is drawing large amounts of power at the same time it doesn't matter if you use 1kW for 10 hours or 10kW for 1 hour. To the grid they look the same.
One interesting case where "at the same time" actually does happen is overnight car charging. Some chargers are configured to start charging exactly when a cheaper tariff kicks in, which causes big transient issues for the grid. I think modern chargers have a random delay to help with that.
> Some chargers are configured to start charging exactly when a cheaper tariff kicks in, which causes big transient issues for the grid. I think modern chargers have a random delay to help with that.
Here in the UK some electricity providers offer 'smart' charging (e.g. Octopus Intelligent Go).
In that situation the energy provider controls when to charge the car - e.g. you say "I want the car at 80% by 7am tomorrow" and the energy provider controls the timing of charges.
That's how my EV charges - I plug it in, and Octopus control it.
Benefit for me is that whenever the car is charging my entire home's use gets the overnight rate (even if part of the schedule is charged during the day).
Benefit for Octopus is they can use my car to balance grid demand / schedule the charge when it is most financially effective for them.
I can - at any time - override that logic if I just want it to charge at a specific time for whatever reason.
(I presume this sort of arrangement is becoming more common in other countries too)
Yep but while that is true at the level of the overall grid, actually the nearest part of "the grid" might be a local transformer that only serves 10-100 houses.
At that scale, it's definitely possible that you all plug in your electric cars and turn on your heat pumps more or less at once on a cold evening after work and start cooking your local transformer. Not my day job but I think it is a potential issue when everything is sized assuming ~2kW average demand or something
I think the advantage is that hot water loses heat over time, depending on how good the insulation is. However with phase change materials, the heat is trappped in the phase change and is stable until you release it.
What about behind the meter fossil fuel for datacenters? The underlying Ember one [0] is nearly all about the grid, with mention of behind the meter solar data being incomplete.
The article quotes £147/MWh for CCGTs. These look to come from the Electricity Generation Costs 2025 [0] released on the same day as the CfD results. However there is no £147/MWh in Annex A [1]. There is a £145/MWh for CCGT delivered in 2030, but the way this was arrived at is interesting.
a) A load factor of 30% (which seems pretty low for a CCGT), that is actually ~28% (per Annex A [1] "Technical Costs and Assumptions" sheet);
b) fuel efficiency is set to be 54%, which is far lower than BAT CCGT of around 64%, which affects fuel and CO2 emissions costs;
c) the analysis missed out capacity market payments that one gets for having dispatchable power stations;
d) the analysis presumes £41/MWh of carbon costs.
The key drivers of the price are load factor (so amortised construction costs), conversion efficiency (fuel costs and carbon costs) and carbon costs themselves. These make up 90% of the LCOE.
Heating from gas is quite peaky (morning and evening heating cycles), whereas heat pumps are best when run low-and-steady.
Assuming 2/3 of residential heat demand transitions to heat pumps, and assuming an optimistic COP of 3 in the worst weather (highest flow temperatures, lowest air temperatures ... perhaps more like 2.5), then the power required to heat this fraction of houses is 2/3 / 3 = 2/9 of the mean gas demand. [0] linked report figure 1 shows a (smoothed by eyeball) demand of around 140GW "local gas demand" during the Beast from the East. This implies heat pumps would take over 31GW to power, which is more like 60% of the current UK electricity supply.
Sorry, alignment issue! Probably transport is less troublesome as it has a decent element of demand side response to it (batteries sufficiently large for a couple of days without charging).
"
The workers' compensation claims that have been recognized by labor authorities include six cases of workers who developed cancer or leukemia due to radiation exposure
"
So compensation has been requested for cancers, of which one death has been reported.
It’s a distant memory from my radiography training, but solid cancers generally take longer to appear post radiation exposure (compared to eg leukaemia), and that case seems early. The article claims that you can’t get lung cancer from a nuclear accident. I’m not sure why they say that, it seems a bold claim.
Whatever the case, they paid out the compensation.
There is no cancer that can be attributed to a particular radiation source. Population rates of cancer might change, but at an individual level, you can’t prove a thing.
From the perspective of the power plant, that’s lucky.
It's not about being lucky. The dose was too low to make a measurable impact. And the effects can't happen this past as we have data about impact of heavy radiation after JP bombing.
So what we have is an industry with extremely low death rate impact that some countries put a stop on, like jp in the past or banned, like Germany, all while industries that caused more deaths like coal generation or even hydro are still used. And other branhces that do vastly more damage like smoking and alcohol are legalized. To me this is sad
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