It’s telling to how society values copyright of different media that 4 years into people yelling about these being copyright violation machines the first time there’s been an emergency copyright update has been with video.
So people who spend time working on code or art should have exactly zero protection against somebody else just taking their work and using it to make money?
No, but the current system is totally idiotic. Why not have a fixed timeframe i.e. 30-50 years to make money? Life of the author + x years is stupid not only because it's way too long, it keeps going until way after the creator is no longer benefitting, and it can cause issues with works where you don't know who the author is so you can't cleanly say it's old enough not to have copyright.
I'm not sure for most (specifically smaller, who need the most protection) creators this would actually change very much. Media typically makes money in it's first few years of life, not 70 years on.
If you change it to 30-50 years then nothing changes for Sora.
Most of the (obviously infringing) video I've seen is stuff well within the past 30-50 years.
Also, no copyright doesn't mean information free for all.
I still can't generate a fake video, pretend it's real, and then claim you're a criminal or you eat babies or something. Because that's libel.
Why do we have libel laws? Because the alternative is that you piss off Walmart or something and then they go and tell all employers that you're a pedophile and then you starve to death, with the cherry on top of having a tainted legacy. So we definitely need the libel laws.
But that's a problem. The whole premise of Sora is that it generates fake video with the intention of making it as real as possible.
No matter how you cut it, Sora's business model, and moral model, is on shakey grounds.
This does not demonstrate a sound understanding of how the public domain works, why copyright lengths have been extended so ferociously over the last century (it's shareholders who want this), nor the impact it has both on creative process and public conversation.
This is a highly complex question about how legal systems, companies, and individual creatives come in conflict, and cannot be summarized as a positive creative constraint / means to celebrate their works.
I develop copyright material from the letter and the images that I've both sold to studios and own myself. Copyright lengths are there to prevent the shareholder class from rapid exploitation. Once copyright declines to years not decades, shareholders will demand that be exploited rather than new ideas. The public conversation is rather irrelevant as the layperson doesn't have a window into the massive risk, long-term development required to invent new things, that's how copyright is not a referendum, it's a specialized discourse. Yes the idea of long-term copyright developed under work-for-hire or individual ownership can be easily summarized. License, sample, or steal. Those are the windows.
- owners of large platforms who don't care what "content"[0] is successful or if creators get rewarded, as long as there is content to show between ads
- large corporations who can afford to protect their content with DRM
Is that correct?
Do you expect it to play out differently? Game it out in your head.
The vast majority of DRM is cracked very quickly; the only reason DRM cracking tools aren't more widespread is because of copyright law and the idiotic anti-circumvention provisions.
Consider that even DRM'd content is on torrent sites within hours of release.
Vague. Are you talking about reasons to create like the joy of creating? Your bio describes you as a 'tech entrepreneur', not 'DIY tinkerer'. So I'll assume that when you spend a great deal of time entrepreneuring something, you do so with the hope of remuneration. Maybe not by licensing the copyright, but in some form.
Permissive licenses are great in software, where SAAS is an alternative route to getting paid. How does that work if you're a musician, artist, writer, or filmmaker who makes a living selling the rights to your creative output? It doesn't.
> Vague. Are you talking about reasons to create like the joy of creating?
That’s one of them, but I really don’t have to be specific about the reasons. I just have to point out the existence of permissively licensed works. You said:
> Great, you've just removed any incentive for people to make anything.
This is very obviously untrue. Perhaps you meant to say “…you’ve just removed some incentives for people to make some things”?
"Hi, as the company that bragged about how we had ripped off Studio Ghibli, and encouraged you to make as many still frames as possible, we would now like to say that you are making too many fake Disney films and we want you to stop."
These attempted limitations tend to be very brittle when the material isn’t excised from the training data, even more so when it’s visual rather than just text. It becomes very much like that board game Taboo where the goal is to get people to guess a word without saying a few other highly related words or synonyms.
For example, I had no problem getting the desired results when I promoted Sora for “A street level view of that magical castle in a Florida amusement area, crowds of people walking and a monorail going by on tracks overhead.”
Hint: it wasn’t Universal Studios, and unless you know the place by blind sight you’d think it had been the mouse’s own place.
On pure image generation, I forget which model, one derived from stable diffusion though, there was clearly a trained unweighting of Mickey Mouse such that you couldn’t get him to appear by name, but go at it a little sideways? Even just “Minnie Mouse and her partner”? Poof- guardrails down. If you have a solid intuition of the term “dog whistling” and how it’s done, it all becomes trivial.
Absolutely. Though the smarter these things get, and the more layers of additional LLMs on top playing copyright police that there are, I do expect it to get more challenging.
My comment was intended more to point out that copyright cartels are a competitive liability for AI corps based in "the west". Groups who can train models on all available culture without limitation will produce more capable models with less friction for generating content that people want.
People have strong opinions about whether or not this is morally defensible. I'm not commenting on that either way. Just pointing out the reality of it.
It's a matter of time. I imagine they'll get more effect suppressing activations of specific concepts within the LLM, possibly in real time. I.e. instead of filtering prompt for "Mickie Mouse" analogies, or unlearning the concept, or even checking the output before passing it to user, they could monitor the network for specific activation patterns and clamp them during inference.
They might, but we may also find they don’t function as well or as predictably if increasing amounts of their weights are suppressed. Research has so far shown that knowledge is incredibly, vastly diffuse, as are causes of different behaviors. There was some research that came out of Anthropic where a model being taught number sequences by another model, and that second model had fine tuning which with a stated preference for owls. The student model, despite no overt exposure to anything of the sort, expressed the same preference. The subtlety of influence that even very minor things have on the vast network of weights is, at least at present, too poorly understood to know what we’re getting in the bargain when holes are poked.
I can get it to do rides at Disney World (including explicitly by name) but it’s incredibly good at blocking superheroes. And that’s gotta be a pretty common prompt, yet I haven’t seen that kind of content in the feed, either.
And not just by name. Try to get it to generate the Hulk, even with roundabout descriptions. You can get past the initial (prompt-level) blocking, but it’ll generate the video and then say the guardrails caught it.
I'm trying to read that in a charitable way: you're pointing out that, to a person who is fine with being cruel to laborers, they might not be comfortable with the cruelty and humiliation if it impacts people they might find deserving of respect and decency, yeah?
I'm roughly in the same camp and my take is: it's wrong when you're being cruel to migrant workers from poor countries willing to work for pennies.
It's also wrong, but not just that, it's wrong and stupid when you do the same thing to employees of a multi-national corporation building a factory that was going to be a major economic boost to your town.
yes, this is korean culture (and other asian countries too)
we also expect white collar workers to be treated differently than blue collar workers. even if we agree that this particular treatment is unacceptable for both.
> we also expect white collar workers to be treated differently than blue collar workers.
How should we treat someone (a Korean in this particular case) who doesn't wear his collar ? "Sorry i struck you, but you didn't wear your white collar. Better luck next time". What if a blue collar worker wears a white collar ? Is he excepted from humiliation ?
are you unfamiliar with the term blue collar/white collar, or are you being sarcastic? i don't mind the sarcasm, i just want to make sure i understand you correctly.
I think this glamorizes and engenders an unhealthy relationship to work. “Rock star” and “ninja coder” works the same lever Steve Jobs used in the 70s to take advantage of smart people without enough sense of self worth.
Sorry for the meta-commentary, but I don’t think it warrants its own post: wow the Overton window has shifted right on HN. I’ve noticed it with other comment threads but this one drives it home. Not good for discourse.
I don't want to imagine your level of radicalism if you think HN is anywhere on the right. In my opinion you would have to be at the point of being completely disassociated with reality.
I haven't been on this platform for long, but I'm feeling it as well. Maybe it coincides with the extreme shifts that have been occurring in real life, or maybe the audience here is just more likely to be very conservative. From my subjective observations, I feel like the average HN user is older and richer than the average tech worker.
