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Does anyone here think Cursor is overvalued? It's just packaging up what already exists, it has no moat or IP.

They're getting paid in extremely overvalued stock, so maybe it balances out.

This is not really a diss on SpaceX either because a lot of IPOs go through an immediate pop and then 1-2 years of doldrums as lockouts expire and promises aren't quite delivered.

Nobody knows what 60 billion in SpaceX stock today will be worth when Cursor insiders finally get to sell (at least a year from now, after other SpaceX insiders have started selling).


Source on the lockup for Cursor insiders?

Generally this is how liquidity works. Their employees will have a six or twelve month lock up (six being most common).

Investors in certrtain rounds (or sizes) tend to have no lockup, whereas later stages have a six month. Alternatively, I've reviewed agreements where the lockup is based on minimum market cap, but I've only seen that a couple of times.


Ok everyone saying this is how it works but where’s the proof? SpaceX has a 7 day lockup for some people which is abnormal. So clearly the way it’s done isn’t in fact how it’s always done.

This is just a general practice that always happens when paying in stock. It's to prevent a massive dump the next day which would tank the share price 'artificially'. Again, rich people's rules.

Ok everyone saying this is how it works but where’s the proof? SpaceX has a 7 day lockup for some people which is abnormal. So clearly the way it’s done isn’t in fact how it’s always done.

https://www.sec.gov/reports/rule-144-selling-restricted-cont...

> Holding Period. Before you may sell any restricted securities in the marketplace, you must hold them for a certain period of time. If the company that issued the securities is a “reporting company” in that it is subject to the reporting requirements of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, then you must hold the securities for at least six months


Are the securities restricted though? I don’t think these would be?

Almost guaranteed to be. The only other way would be to have issued them during the transaction with the Sec. There was no mention of that. 60billion of issued shares would have been mentioned. It's non trivial amount.

What’s the lockup period in this case?

Um, I honestly don't know for sure, if I'm not mistaken SpaceX has some weird staggered release schedule for employees and early investors, I guess based on their stock dates.

> SpaceX has a 7 day lockup for some people which is abnormal

You might be referring to staff members who have shares ? Their shares are not restricted securities as far as I know, but their internal company policy might affect those, but I'm not 100% certain on that.


There are many tranches here. Some friends and family got to buy day one IPO with no restrictions. Then some employees get a rolling release starting June 30.

That's interesting actually, and good to hear. I fully believe those employees deserve their full share.

It can be inferred because it’s how things tend to work.

Ok everyone saying this is how it works but where’s the proof? SpaceX has a 7 day lockup for some people which is abnormal. So clearly the way it’s done isn’t in fact how it’s always done.

Well, the people who bought the SpaceX IPO essentially footed the entire bill here. And they might still make money on it, depending on how the stock goes from here on. I don't see anyone who could lose here, even if the bubble bursts, apart from the Cursor people. And they are likely still going to make a huge amount of money.

> Well, the people who bought the SpaceX IPO essentially footed the entire bill here.

It's hard to say that they footed the bill here, but they basically gave SpaceX a number to say "well our stock went IPO and it's at this price, so here's 60B at this price"

A good tactic from SpaceX as after the inital surge of a big IPO, the stock price usually comes down and finds it's correct balance, which is usually always lower. So if they had of waited the 'cooling off' period of a year for example, and the stock price went down to it's 'correct' valuation, then they would have had to issue a higher number of stocks.. At least that's my thinking, but I'm terrible with money.


No, look a Composoer 2, it stands out starkly on its own in the pareto frontier on low cast and fast models.

Composer 2.5 was a huge leap with minimal compute from xAI.

They can compete with OpenAI and anthropic with xAI scale compute. They have a top notch model team and incredible training data and huge enterprise costumer contracts.


my employer (one of those huge contracts) dropped cursor in favor of claude and i don’t think this is true at all

while we had it i used cursor for probably eight months as my main ide (i did really like the interface for embedding code in prompts!) but had no problems switching to claude code. i asked around, and i truly don’t know a single coworker who misses cursor even a little bit.


My experience mirrors this as well.

I was fully in on Cursor for a good chunk of last year, using Composer + Gemini Pro (via Copilot / GH integration). I really enjoyed Cursor's tab completion capabilities, but when Sonnet and Opus started getting particularly good for me (think for me it was around 4.5), I swapped over to Zed + claude code in the integrated terminal. I've found that after a bit, I haven't ended up missing the tab completion. I've been perfectly fine with just LSP + claude always open. I don't miss Cursor. All my colleagues are on claude code with half of us also using Zed.


Composer 2.5 Fast is particularly good.

For someone who is new to agentic code or is generally somewhat junior, Cursor is very easy to get started with and is generally fairly frustration-free.

I use a cheap $20 subscription mostly for occasional use of Opus and Composer.

SpaceX made a smart move here. Someone else should have really seen the opportunity and bought them.


Composer 2.5 is just a repackaged chinese model, Kimi IIRC

How the hell is an IDE a "pareto frontier"? Even if, say composer 2.5 is a huge leap forward, that doesn't mean IntelliJ or Vim or Emacs or Codex got worse.

IDE improvements are not a zero sum game.


In a competitive environment, it's precisely that. An improvement in product A takes customers from B and C.

Nope. Vim and Neovim users can use the cusor-agent cli for agentic stuff and there prefered editing tool for editing. All the major providers have a cli specific version these days. Probably because folks actually didn't want to actually use the cursor Gui and once Claude code came along those folks jumped ship and went full cli again

This is delusional. Composer 2.5 is trash compared even to haiku let alone opus.

This doesn't match the empirical observations of a lot of people I'd trust more than you, and putting it below Haiku immediately makes it extra sus (Sonnet would have been the credibility preserving comparison).

Hmmm. Not in my experience. I don’t think it can be compared to Haiku, maybe sonnet levels? It’s obviously not Opus and never was intended for that use case. I use it quite a bit and it works well and is extremely fast for the tasks it was built for

It doesn’t tell anything about the valuation, but I prefer it over Claude Code, and I even stopped using JetBrains IDEs because of it.

Vs Claude Code: I like the option to change the models, as I often prefer ChatGPT or Composer to Opus. I have a slight preference towards TUI, but not so strong to drop the models.

Vs JetBrains. I really love JetBrains but the tab complete just works so well for me.


why u prefer cursor over claude code?

its not just the models, their auto complete is actually really good. when you make a change it will give you "tab to next" which makes refactors super easy.

composer 2.5 is also a very decent model, it go 90% of my AI tasks using it now.


So 60B dollars and your primary reason it’s worth that is “tab to next” autocomplete?

Not to mention VSCode has that too

Scaled to every developer in the world? Yeah, that's productivity.

I'm not sure it's worth the price tag for developers though, I mean resharper promised similar, delivered half, bought by millions and still don't think Jetbrains, even with its other good tool suit is valued 60B.

I just laughed out loud reading this

Hyperfocused edit assist is awesome. I’m the magician the assist is the magic wand.

Investing in companies is not about what they are delivering right now, it is about what you think they can deliver in the future.

It is not like purchasing soap in the supermarket.


Maybe the real Mythos secret is that it found out it could fit on a GPT2 size model

I tried it a few times and was not convinced by the autocomplete.

I found it less effective than free copilot autocomplete on vanilla VSCode.


Yes, that's why Cursor was very popular when actually reading model output paragraph by paragraph was still the way you used them. That's no longer the case, their use has cratered, and in fact they have been disintermediated by their model vendors, leaving an empty shell.

I guess that fits into the Musk empire because "empty shell" increasingly describes his companies.

Tesla is a car company that doesn't want to make cars. And xAI is an AI foundation model company that actually is a data center REIT...


composer 2.5 is literally just a fine-tuned kimi model, and the autocomplete is exteremly meh.

The only kind of AI I want in my editor is an autocomplete, but this isn't very magical to non-programmers (their TAM) or all that valuable (you can't charge thousands), they bought Supermaven and basically killed it, I'm not sure how you think tab is really good, I've not been impressed when I played around with it.


Yeah, is that a bad thing? They did some really interesting stuff when fine tuning.

https://cursor.com/blog/composer-2-5#targeted-rl-with-textua...


What tab is better?

I'm honestly not up to date on all the FIM autocomplete at the moment. However, autocomplete getting good is something I look forward too. I believe its mostly a problem of latency. You needs <200ms (and accurate) for it to not feel annoying, which is hard to do and use a larger more capable model.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem like this is a problem companies are looking to tackle because it doesn't really make you any money or impress investors. Inceptionlabs.ai seems to be making attempts, but I haven't tried. They are apparently in the Zed editor, something else I haven't used.

https://www.inceptionlabs.ai/blog/introducing-mercury-edit-2


Cursor was nice when I was still meticulously hand coding my stack, fantastic autocomplete. With today's top models, I barely write code myself, just review commits. Cursor eats Opus credits like there is no tomorrow. Composer has been a net negative in my experience. All in on Codex with GPT 5.5 on high using /fast.

IMO composer 2.5 is pretty good, and the $20 Cursor plan gives you _way_ more tokens than Codex/Claude code/Antigravity

I seem to get a lot more tokens for my $ with the $200 plan from Anthropic or OpenAI than I do from the $200 plan from Cursor.

Lately I use Cursor with DeepSeek API, and OpenAI subscription through their Codex App.


Not my experience. Maybe an hour of top model use on the $20 plan, then Composer 2.5 which needs constant hand holding.

Only cursor employees could continue to spread this idea that composer 2.5 isn’t total garbage.

Cursor, from my companies perspective at least, seems to be handling charming leadership to get enterprise AI contracts in place, compared to the alternatives. That's feeling like the moat from my first-hand experience. Easy single contract that covers a lot of AI cases that management wants to say they have in place.

Yes. I think Cursor is overvalued, but not to the extent of SpaceX

Maybe it's just the US dollar that is overvalued

I get the joke, but if anything it's that there's too much money sloshing around.

That would explain the top tier of meme stocks, but counterpoint: what about our salaries?

Workers are criminally underpaid

Could not say on the valuation front. The one thing that is obvious is the trash talkers love to point out how horrible it is but I have yet to find a compelling replacement. Obviously Claude Code works but at least for me I never got along with the CLI workflow very well and sure I could use vs code with the extension for Claude but then I lose tab autocompletes which I actually like. I have yet to see anyone build a derivative model like composer 2 that is quick, cheap and has higher reliability on tool call use. Again I don’t know on valuation but it’s pretty impressive how far they have come. I look at Jetbrains and at least from an AI perspective they have been left in the dust.

Using Cursor with Jetbrains via ACP isn't that different than using within the Cursor IDE. You still get Agent/Plan/Ask modes with model selectors.

I'd recommend installing the Cursor IDE, then using it to install Cursor CLI (it's easier to keep things up to date this way), then setting up your Jetbrains IDE to point to the Cursor CLI via ACP integration.


Cursor's moat is that it is a virus that infects organizations through shared skills, hooks, agents, etc.. Once one person uses it and infects the repo everyone else starts using it.

Maybe, but migration from/to anything is so much easier now with Agents.

Know a few companies that have moved from it fully to Claude. It’s still early so the moving cost is low and Claude Cowork is something non-tech employees can make use of much easier than Cursor. I really don’t see what Curor’s value is longer term. Why pay a middle man?

I don't. Cursor being a man in the middle between coders and other people models for so long, has so much more training data than anyone else in the world.

There is obvious proxy to the amount of training data - revenue. And I think anthropic is way ahead of them.

Moat is whatever thing is stopping the next guy from simply drinking your milkshake. People conflate "I could smash this out in a weekend" with "and therefore could also build a multi-billion dollar revenue stream in [counted in months]".

I do think this has had its day. From what I remember, Cursor was useful back in the day when you coded in an IDE and wanted to read code while you baby stepped through incremental changes with an AI. I'm tempted to put /sarc around this but not really...

They have a surprising amount of enterprise revenue and mindshare, of which xAI has literally none.

In terms of whether they’re overvalued: probably. But any valuation should also take into account the value they have to x.ai (also under SpaceX) as a source of training data for coding models.

I like Cursor but that valuation is a hard sell.

Their valuation should be very closely tied to how how many tokens it takes to get from Void to Cursor.

If those values diverge by much, something is rotten in the state of Denmark.


Cursor Remote Agents are important to our AI orchestration layer. It's possible that Claude can do this directly but Cursor Remote Agents made this laughably easy.

Composer is very good, and these days after heavily using CC, Pi and Open code I am back with Cursor. "No moat or IP" is underrating it a lot.

CC on Deepseek is a moat.

they propably have a lot of training data from their users, which might be useful for SpaceX which has a lot of compute

It's not true it has zero moat or IP (they have their own LLM and it is useful), but it is indeed way over-valued.

Every single one?

There's a plausible synergy in it for xAI though. Access to reams of training data for a company whose marginal cost of compute is very very low, and that they can use as a channel to push Grok. I don't think it's worth anywhere near this much to anyone else, but to xAI it's at least possible.

obivously is overvalued

I guess they're getting bought because they had access to a lot of codebases from a lot of companies, and perhaps there's something to mine in those logs...

They have the conversation history of every person that has used their product. That's worth something.

Sounds like what people here said 20 years ago about Google buying YouTube, or 10 years ago about Facebook buying Instagram - companies with no moats and huge infrastructure costs.

To paraphrase, the biggest trick the devil pulled is convincing founders they need a moat.


None of that really matters.

What matters is that this has enough "future story value" to keep the few investors invested... allowing for the planned index funds to buy into the overvalued stock & allowing for the largest heist in the history of money.

It's become pure hype and drama on the global stock market stage.


Transactions that happen out in the open, with the consent of all parties are not a heist.

Money is neither created nor destroyed in the markets. It's exchanged.

If Musk is worth a trillion while not generating a trillion of value, then it's a heist.

heist: "an elaborate, meticulously planned theft, typically targeting highly valuable items, large sums of money, or financial institutions like banks or museums"


Scam maybe.

Grok needs a coding environment play to match Claude Code - that's what this is.

And AI companies are not short of capital.


Thats grok build, which is pretty nice and has compatibility with Claude Code. They just need better models, that will be released soon.

So is 'Space'X. They fit perfectly

There are competitors to Starlink arriving now.

For example, the Australian government has selected Project Kepler (now called Amazon Leo) to provide broadband services to the Australian Outback.

https://www.nbnco.com.au/corporate-information/media-centre/...

And geopolitical shenanigans in Ukraine with Musk and Starlink means that it may not be a reliable partner.


And LEO is using SpaceX to launch.

SpaceX was launching a modest % of the LEO constellation but after the Blue Origin failure, SpaceX is the only launch provider who can fill that gap and actually let LEO deliver on contracted time.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm no Musk sycophant though I do love SpaceX and Starlink. I want us to have multiple providers of super cheap space launch capabilities and multiple diverse LEO satellite constellations (3-4 on a global scale makes sense I think?).

I'm sure BlueOrigin will get there some day and I'm sure LEO will get there too (maybe even in the 2028 window if they expand their SpaceX launch partnership).


I for one am sure that BlueOrigin will never get there.


I hope you are wrong, or at least that someone else does it.

I'm very happy for SpaceX's success but a monopoly on space launch capacity benefits nobody, SpaceX included.


The biggest competitor to Starlink is, ironically, traditional fiber.

When COVID hit, I knew a lot of engineers who decided to move to rural areas / small farms, because they could leverage Starlink to work remotely.

Last year, when I asked whether they still liked Starlink, all of them said it was amazing, but they had gotten fiber coverage in their area from a local provider, so they don't use it anymore, or just use it as a backup.

I think Starlink was a huge demand signal that there were people willing to pay a premium for faster-than-radio internet. So, unless they manage to be cheaper and faster than fiber, I don't think there is much of an endgame there.


Starlink isn’t for areas served by fiber, it’s for areas that do not have have good Internet access available, which are far larger than the area served by fiber.


Starlink isn’t for areas served by fiber it’s for areas that don’t have have good Internet access available, which are far larger than the area served by fiber.


Far larger and less populated. The point of the comment is to illustrate that the TAM is small and shrinking rather than the opposite.


I think you are missing the point.

It’s about software preservation and abiding by the implied expectations at the time of sale.


M$$$ and other companies don't give a damn for software preservation.

We do as a community.

Many open source Windows deserve preservation. Even if they are abandoned.

But blobs? No way.


This has been happening with Video Games for a while. There is a major initiative called "Stop Killing Games" which was triggered when Ubisoft bricked "The Crew" when servers were shutdown.

https://www.stopkillinggames.com/

There has been some success. There is new legislation in California which has passed the Assembly. https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/22330/stop-killing-game...

And there is a citizens initiative in Europe which the the European Commission must respond to: https://citizens-initiative.europa.eu/initiatives/details/20...


It's good legislation. I would love to see this extended to "Stop Killing Software" in general, with the same provisions.


Hopefully SKG can serve as a precedent to help consumer rights expand.


This is much worse. The Crew was always framed as an 'always online' game, even if that was technically a farce. This would be more like if Bethesda rolled out an update to cripple Skyrim after releasing a new Elder Scrolls game to lackluster sales.


[flagged]


If this removes people’s access to products (software licenses count as products here) someone payed fir once. Then you should only be allowed to do that if you enable people to continue using the product.

Releasing the server code should be a requirement. Software updates shouldn’t be required. Unless the product has a moment where it will stop functioning on the hardware it was build for built in (such as an expiring certificate).


> I think you should be allowed to stop supporting software or shut down your servers.

That has nothing to do with Stop Killing Games.


At least the servers bit seems very related no? I’d love to know more though.


The movement explicitly DOESNT want to force companies to keep their servers running. It is singularily concerned with keeping games playable in some form after shutdown. Be it via patching out the requirement on a server, providing a way to host it yourself or any other option, really.


You should not be able to shut down the ability to play a game if it cost money to buy.


You should at least have to refund customers when you take away the ability to use a product they purchased.


This is fair for some reasonable time window after purchase. But I think it's okay for things to have a lifespan even if they cost money.


As long as the life span is clearly spelled out when you purchase, so you know that you are actually buying a 10 year subscription, and not a game.


This would be a much preferable law to the one actually proposed.


No. It's not a physical good that is subject to wear and tear. There is no excuse for a single player game to have a lifespan because it has some pointless online verification component.


I think it should be legal to sell something with a pointless online verification component.


Yes you should!


Give me one good reason why.


Because I think it's good for software developers and consumers for people to have the flexibility to sell something that depends on online services which may become unavailable at some point in the future. This is more valuable than requiring indefinite support, public pluggable backends, or required open sourcing or backend redistribution, which imposes onerous technical or business limitations for an extremely minor consumer benefit all things considered.



The US “loses” $1T every ~150 days on delivering basic government services, and every US citizen is on the hook for that, not just investors.


> The bottleneck in fixing bugs like these is the human capacity to triage, report, and design and deploy patches for them. Finding them in the first place has become vastly more straightforward with Mythos Preview.

This has always been the bottleneck. Automated tools love to flag vulnerabilities, but almost all are false positives. These need to be triaged and evaluated by humans. This is okay. I’d rather close a false positive after a careful review than miss it altogether.

I don’t think it’s appropriate for calling out humans as a bottleneck. They are an essential part of the process, I’m sure Mythos will also become a catalyst in the process.


It is definitely not the case that human remediation was the bottleneck for most vulnerability eradication 10 years ago. Proving out vulnerabilities was much harder than resolving them.


> Name, city, state, ZIP, email, phone

Does this work for anyone outside the US as well? e.g. Will it work for an Australian?


You know there are 34 countries in America other than the United States.


You are welcome to remind people of this, but don’t expect that you’ll change anyone’s habits on an English-speaking USA-based forum.


There’s nothing to be reminded of. English has a word to describe North and South America together (“the Americas”). Other languages have different words for the same concept.

It’s like reminding someone they shouldn’t say “bicycle” but should instead say “fahrrad”.


The USAians are largely seemingly already convinced the name of their country starts with an A, those that live elsewhere generally have better geography chops, so you're correct - it's unlikely any minds will change.


It's possible for a name to refer to both a country and a continent (or two). Just as "New York" could mean the state or the city.


We have a similar thing on this side of the Atlantic where people argue about whether it is acceptable to refer to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland as "Britain". I feel it is, as an abbreviation, and it is my preferred abbreviation, along with "GB", because I like to look forward to the time when we won't have a monarchy any more and I therefore don't like the abbreviation "UK", and also, despite not having any strong Irish connections, I tend to feel that Ireland ought to be reunited. This may seem like the opposite of my opinion on the US/America question, where I prefer "US", and I suppose it is, but I have my reasons!


Are there any countries named after continents though? Aside from Australia?


I was taught that the continent is Oceania, not Australia


In English that would be "the Americas".

I am quite surprised no one is bothered by the fact that the name is that of a colonialist and slave trader (he personally took part is slave raiding).


Apart from The Economist, I don't know anyone who says "the Americas".

If you asked a random person what Columbus discovered, what would they answer? Round here I think most people would say that Columbus discovered America. By landing in San Salvador and then Cuba.

By the way, I don't strongly object to people using "America" as an abbreviation for "The United States of America" in contexts in which it is obvious that a country is being referred to, and "American" is even less objectionable in an appropriate context. At the same time, "American" obviously doesn't mean "of or pertaining to the USA" if someone is talking about "American species of conifer" or "American dialects of Spanish" or "American tortilla recipes".


> If you asked a random person what Columbus discovered, what would they answer? Round here I think most people would say that Columbus discovered America. By landing in San Salvador and then Cuba.

Do they actually know where he landed? I think that other than your Columbus example it would be very rare for people to say "America" to mean either or both continents.

Most people I know would say America for the US, North America, South America, or the Americas as appropriate. when referring to the continents.

Other than The Economist's usage, "The Americas" is used by other publications and books, its the name of a TV series, its the title of most wikipedia articles relating to the two continents.

It appears to be "open to uncertainties" but is the commoner usage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas#cite_note-oxfordc-3


Of course - most HN users live in the United States’ northern neighbor (which just so happens to also be called the United States).


Security issues aside, they are a nightmare in enterprise environments where internet and OS access is heavily restricted.


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