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Maybe get out your bubble for a while


I think he meant the bottom address/controls bar.


Yep, but that doesn't obstruct the page.

Except for a version from 2 years ago that never even made it out of beta ;)


It does before user scroll down the page a little. That's what he called dynamic viewport being added to spec. It was to address issue of incorrect viewport height (100vh) when the toolbar is visible. So units such as svh, lvh, and dvh are added.


Ah gotcha.

But that has been the default behaviour in any mobile browser since forever. I don't know why he would blame Apple for this.

(Though I don't know how it used to interact with vh)


Yeah this is what I was referring to, thanks.


Not just iOS safari. I believe Firefox on Android is also the same.

Can't believe showing user either controls or address bar at the bottom is consider "user-hostile".


Having controls at the bottom isn't user hostile, it's the fact that it obstructs the space allotted for developers. This makes it much harder to develop mobile sites - in my experience a very large minority of sites fuck it up, and it makes the mobile browser feel like a worse experience.


Does the viewport reflect reality on desktop when e.g. http login controls cover part of the page, or another window is covering part of it?


Yep, and it always has. It's super reliable on desktop.


Like, you drag a window over your browser, and the viewport values change? I'd not have expected that, and I don't think I've ever noticed that behavior. How does it account for all of those sorts of things (browser-provided login prompts, or browser settings windows, or certificate-info pop-downs, or non-browser windows being dragged on top of part of the browser window) not necessarily resulting in a viewable area describable as a rectangle?


Sorry I should have been more specific. The viewport is merely the window of the browser itself where the website is rendered. The calculations given to devs reflects that area, and it does change if the user resizes their browser. But it doesn’t change if something is displayed on top.

It’s true that some temporary browser elements will display on top of the viewport, but these are things like alerts where it makes sense.

To have a permanent fixture that takes up space and then have the viewport lie to devs about the actual dimensions is really frustrating.


It's just... vexing to have "viewport" units in the spec, but then the user agents are just drawing stuff on top of the "viewport" but not changing its reported size, so now we need additional "real viewport size" units...


Yes exactly, we’re adding features specifically to the language to accommodate vendors who aren’t respecting the spec. Feels very backwards.


The developer has already clarified that Apollo was not the top user of the API. It was also confirmed by a Reddit employee.


The community (not all, I know) is supporting this.


The community is a massive majority of lurkers that don't comment, don't upvote and may not even have an account.

It's not because a few terminally online Reddit addicts are vocally posing as the resistance that the majority of the community supports it.


I think this might be an extreme case of misunderstanding how internet communities work.

Without comments, HN would be just a boring link aggregator and we'd get very little information if the article was BS or not. But because we have comments we get gems at times where 'the creator of X' discusses the merits of the article. That can be nearly priceless. Things like this draw people that don't upvote and don't comment, but they still get immense value from it.

Posts are what makes Reddit, so much so that Reddit created hundreds of fraudulent profiles in their early days to fake popularity.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/06/reddi...

----

Of course this interests me what the future looks like for social media. At one time in the past you needed users to generate and post content. Could we end up with social media sites with 'good enough' bots faking humans that draw in the masses, but few biological commenters and posters would exist?


Lurkers who never post are not participating in the community


.. but they do generate ad impressions. Everyone else is "the product", I guess.


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