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> I'm a curmudgeonly old man fond of old tech, but I have still had a Wayland-only setup since early 2020

You must not be that curmudgeonly! I haven't tried Wayland yet, and so long as people are still arguing about it, I'm too afraid to even try it. :-)


> Were smartphones more like PCs, you could buy an iPhone and put Android on it, then use any of the iOS, Google Play, or Amazon stores to install apps.

It's never been like that. What you wrote is fundamentally the same idea as: "If consumer computers more like consumer computers, you could buy a MacBook Pro and run RedHat Linux on it, then run any of the macOS applications or Linux applications that exist in the world."

While the mobile computing ecosystem and details are quite different, it's mostly same cocktail of things: Commercial hardware that is either open or closed, a [maybe commercial] OS, and applications that execute under version X of the OS and version Y of a runtime.


why is this so astounding to those commenting on twitter? because git doesn't artificially limit the line length?

i've used ansi sequences in my zsh prompt for 20 years to make colors and move the cursor; it's just in-band ascii that is interpreted by the terminal emulator, no?


By default, I'd expect data that likely came from third parties to be sanitized before output.


it was, note the twitter had you pass "--no-pager" to get cursor movement to work.

With default options, you only get colors, and this is pretty safe.


It's a bit more complicated than that. For example, if you do

git log --format=%ae | sort -u

the cursor movement sequences will be preserved.

I haven't delved too deeply into what git actually does here in terms of processing for "pager" output vs not.


...and for this "display some art" hack specifically, it looked like it can be made to work with plain git log by using `\r` characters as newlines in addition to the escape sequences, but I haven't tested that much.


Sure, sure, but why would such a sanitization remove useful things like terminal drawing codes? That would be untoward.


same. i don't raise on click. this is incredibly useful when a smaller window is in the foreground--and perhaps a window underneath is maximized--and i just need to select/copy something from the background real quick. the main task i am working on is in the foreground, and i don't want its window to immediately vanish from my sight because it's mentally and visually disruptive (in fact, i usually don't want to blast every other window out of sight when the maximized window raises either). i will easily raise the background window when i need to (in a variety of ways, depending upon whether i am currently using keyboard or mouse); meanwhile, i can lazily focus it and interact with it while all my windows stay put. it's very calming.


> I bought a Mac now. I’m too old for the fight.

I said the same a decade ago. As of last week, I'm back on X11... chipping away at configs for hours and hours and hours.

But I have libnotify popups now. :D


And if it goes like it did for me, that smile will turn upside down in a month and you'll format your Linux partition and move to WSL2 on Windows even if you haven't used it in 20 years. That's it, I'm done.

At least now I only have to put up with a slightly dated and crufty interface but I can use my PC to full potential - gaming AND work AND working bluetooth. Crazy huh?

In my case, I also managed to notice that my computer is much faster than it ever was on Linux, which is nice. If I had an old Core 2 Duo Linux would make it fly, but alas, I can afford a modern PC.


Yeah I've got a hefty PC here too running Windows. WSL2 is wonderful until you get your first Hyper-V bugcheck, filesystem corruption or weird ass network issue to debug. It's really not very good. I used it from day one and WSL1 before that which was even more horrible (NT impedance mismatch was obvious)

The compromise for me before migrating to Mac was using Windows on the desktop with Ubuntu VMs in Virtualbox. I had whole clusters running on my desktop.

Windows 10 is fairly decent on most hardware I have found. If they finished off all the little quality issues, had a decently integrated mobile ecosystem and stopped all the telemetry bullshit I'd be there now. I had some hope back in 2015ish when I was full time windows desktop dev with WP handset etc. Alas the world moved on so I dug the old Unix hat out.


Mac is great, I would use it full time if Jobs and Apple hadn't decided gaming is for kids. It's my hobby, especially now that I'm locked home, and being unable to play the latest PC game is an unacceptable compromise for me. No, a console is not what I'm looking for.

So in that case, Windows is the best compromise. And while I'm still in the proprietary world, I'm outside the walled garden.

In any case, I haven't hit any WSL2 bug or corruption in these 6 months (nor blue screen), so fingers crossed.


Yes I keep my PC for games as well.

I wish you continued fortune with WSL2.


Most newer/younger people don't like or know Make; it's old, arcane software.

It differentiates between TABs and Spaces because each one signifies a different thing to follow: Lines starting with TAB indicate that a _recipe_ follows (which is shell syntax), and lines NOT starting with TAB indicate that a _rule_ follows (ie., native Makefile grammar/syntax).

Hate it or not, it's been a reliable workhorse for decades.


Disclaimer: I like make(1).

That said, the description above is accurate, but still describes an almost immediately regrettable mistake[0]. Many are used to it now, and the semantics are “fact” now, but could still have been avoided.

[0] https://stackoverflow.com/a/1765566


Thank you for the epic reference! Despite all the classic works in computer history, I've come to realize that TAOUP is honestly/possibly my favorite. ok, maybe tied for favorite...


i'm about 40 yrs old - been working in tech (with linux) since the late 90s. gave my life to it, lost my physical and mental health; burned out numerous times. can't stand this industry anymore.

moral of the story: 99% of people still don't understand the nature of software. very few people--like rich hickey (clojure), or fpb (mythical man-month)--seem to get it. tech is mainstream and most people are missing historical context and experience.

(the goals of capitalism are typically at odds with building systems of the highest quality--and understandably so.)

the only creative spark in computing i have to sooth myself anymore is reading lisp or unix books from the 80s and 90s, because the content is so thoughtful (given the culture and smaller community at the time). the internet has become ruined by advertising and bloatware, and the culture has largely been ruined by bad habits and misunderstanding, imo.


Thanks for that. I tend to idealize my career but in reading your comment I stopped to think of both the good and bad parts of my working life, from the sublime to the boring and odd job tasks. Working life really is a mixed bag.

You mentioned Lisp. I just retired last year, and just turned 69. I only use Lisp now (three planned projects for the macOS store, one almost done, and all my writing is concentrated on Lisp) and am dropping other programming languages that I used to also love, including Lisp languages that are not Common Lisp.

I also agree that the Internet is not what it could be but I still find value by finding a few people who I really enjoy, follow their writing and podcasts, and ignore 99.999% of everything else. I also find that reading books is much more rewarding that browsing the web.


Sounds exactly like me. My burnout has gotten worse now that tech is mainstream. My current gig is more like a regular business that just happens to develop software. Most of the staff are social first technology second. I don’t fit in at all, and to be frank it depresses me. Not sure what I’m going to do in the future.

I can’t shoot the shit and talk strace or gdb with any of them.


After reading your reply to OP below, I agree we have a super similar path. Especially the beginning:

> My first burnout was pure depletion of energy. I was young, passionate, and believed in doing the best work I could. I was addicted to work and pushed myself to deliver. I did, and built a career. I left after almost a decade at that company [...]

(However, I never found a way to leave "Tech" for another profession--especially once I achieved a certain salary range, and others depended on me.)

> I can’t shoot the shit and talk strace or gdb with any of them.

Know the feeling exactly...


> moral of the story: 99% of people still don't understand the > nature of software. very few people--like rich hickey ? ? (clojure), or fpb (mythical man-month)--seem to get it. tech >?is mainstream and most people are missing historical context >and experience.

This is it. As engineers, we want to build the best can. As managers of a business, we want to product the most profit we can. As marketers, the more income that comes in, the better off we are.

Chose 2 of the 3. Marketing almost always wins one of those slots.

If someone could produce a solid infrastructure to get rid of ads and all that nonsense, but still get a product out in front of everyone, I think that might be the holy grail.

(I hope that if you figure this out - you might give me a .5% royalty) when your successful.


Get collapseos, it has a bundled z80 emulator and some shell. Learn forth and continue doing Z80 coding. It's really fun.


Thanks, i'll give it a try. :)


Also remember gopher is still alive. My gopher list:

1436.ninja

1436.ninja/1/Port70News

1436.ninja/1/Project_Gutenberg_in_Gopherspace

2f30.org

bay.parazy.de

bitreich.org

box.matto.nl

floodgap.com

fritterware.org

gopher.gluon.me

gopher.viste.fr

gopher.viste.fr/1/ogup/list

gopher://661.org/1if-archive

gopher://adamsgaard.dk/1

gopher://ascraeus.org/1/books

gopher://ftp.icm.edu.pl

gopher://gopher.661.org

gopher://gopher.leveck.us

gopher://gopher.xpenguin.club

gopher://p3x981.com

gopher://republic.circumlunar.space/1/~katolaz/phlog

gopherddit.com

gopherpedia.com

hngopher.com

magical.fish

mozz.us

msbgtn01.synchro.net

port70.net/1/chan

rawtext.club

schinkel.bevuta.com

sdf.org

sdf.org/1/users/julienxx/Lobste.rs

khzae.net/1/chan

bbs.synchro.net/1grp:fidonet

##Usenet is alive too. If you set slrn killing all

##spam, a lot of newsgroups are still bearable.

comp.lang.c

comp.lang.moderated

comp.unix.shell


Lisp software from the 80s is available to play with too, you don't have to restrict yourself to just reading about it.


Not a history book, per se, but a great tour into the culture and philosophy of Unix: The Art of Unix Programming [1], by Eric Raymond. Chapter 2 is titled "History."

You also have resources like The Unix Heritage Society [2], who show a timeline of historic events on their wiki [3].

I bought Brian Kernighan's memoir [4], which so far is an incredibly detailed and personal account of his time at BTL.

[1] http://catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/

[2] https://www.tuhs.org/

[3] https://wiki.tuhs.org/doku.php?id=events:start

[4] https://www.amazon.com/UNIX-History-Memoir-Brian-Kernighan/d...


Then there's this debacle I've never spent enough time getting to the bottom of... https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dhrcxw/james_g...


https://github.com/larsbrinkhoff/emacs-history has the details... there's some Gosling code (notably display.c with the skull-and-bones warning) in Emacs 13, but none that I can find in 15 and later.


That TeleVideo ad is amazing. Thank you!



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