Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | mbesto's commentslogin

This sentiment is going exactly against the trend right now. AI coding is making technically minded product manager's MORE powerful not less. When/if coding just because your ability to accurately describe what you want to build, the people yielding this skill are the ones who understand customer requirements, not the opposite.

> Find your most socially competent engineer,

These usually get promoted to product management anyway, so this isn't a new thought.


> This sentiment is going exactly against the trend right now.

It's not.

Engineers are having more and more minutia and busy work taken off their plate, now done by AI. That allows them to be heads up more often, more of their cognitive capacity is directed towards strategy, design, quality.

Meanwhile, users are building more and more of their own tools in house. Why pay someone when you can vibe code a working solution in a few minutes?

So product managers are getting squeezed out by smarter people below them moving into their cognitive space and being better at solving the problems they were supposed to be solving. And users moving into their space by taking low hanging fruit away from them. No more month long discussions about where to put the chart and what color it should be. The user made their own dashboard and it calls into the API. What API? The one the PM doesn't understand and a single engineer maintains with the help of several LLMs.

If it's simple and easy: the user took it over, if it's complex: it's going to the smartest person in the room. That has never been the PM.


> if it's complex: it's going to the smartest person in the room. That has never been the PM.

Yet the PM always has the last say on what goes in the product, NOT the engineer. Funny how that works...

None of your conclusions are consistent with experience (interviewed 900+ SaaS management teams)


In my average experience, without interviewing management teams - my observation is that the "smartest person in the room" is rarely the one deciding anything.

This also depends on your definition on "smartest".


> This also depends on your definition on "smartest".

Which the parent conveniently left out a definition of. I sort of ignored that implication and went straight to the point - which is it doesn't matter if the PM is the smartest or not. What matters is who makes the decisions and typically the PM does.


> Now that actually writing code has less value than prompting, and prompting is lower skill than writing code, in what world do you think that the pay will remain the same?

Don't you think people said the same thing C and Python? Isn't Python a lower skill than C for example?


> Don't you think people said the same thing C and Python?

Maybe. Are they here now?

> Isn't Python a lower skill than C for example?

No. Being able to solve a problem using Python over C is not even in the same class of being able to solve a problem by asking for it in English.


Woodworking is still a thing despite IKEA, big box furniture stores, etc.

People will pay for quality craftsmanship they can touch and enjoy and can afford and cannot do on their own - woodworking. Less so for quality code and apps because (as the Super Bowl ads showed us) anyone can create an app for their business and it's good enough. The days of high-paid coders is nearly gone. The senior and principals will hang on a little longer. Those that can adapt to business analyst mode and project manager will as well (CEOs have already told us this: adapt or get gone), but eventually even they will be outmoded because why buy a $8000 couch when I can buy one for $200 and build it myself?

This is incorrect.

Visa's processes ~$14T in transactions. At 0.2% thats roughly ~$28B in revenue (VISA posted ~$40B in revenue in 2025) versus 2% is $280B in revenue.

EDIT: The 2~3% you're talking is the payment processor fees which get divvy'd out to acquiring processors, acquiring banks, gateways, merchant processing, etc. etc.


The word miracle itself is hyperbolic in nature...it's meant to enchant and not to be used literal or concretely.

No need to be pedantic here, there is a large cohort of the population that seemingly never thought a robot would be able to write usable code ("inexplicable by natural or scientific laws") and now here we are seeing that happen ("hey this must be preternatural! there is no other explanation")


Honestly, the costs are so minimal and vary wildly relative to the cost of a developer that it's frankly not worth the discussion...yet. The reality is the standard deviation of cost is going to oscillate until there is a common agreed upon way to use these tools.

Yes, but the lack of clear pricing probably makes people think it's more expensive than it actually is. (It did so to me.)

There is nothing quantifiable here: https://claude.com/pricing

Pro: "Everything in Free, plus: More usage"

Max: "Choose 5x or 20x more usage than Pro"

Wow, 5x or 20x more of "more". That's some masterful communication right there.


> Honestly, the costs are so minimal and vary wildly relative to the cost of a developer that it's frankly not worth the discussion...yet

Is it? Sure, the chatbot style maxes at $200/month. I consider that ... not unreasonable ... for a professional tool. It doesn't make me happy, but it's not horrific.

The article, however, explicitly pans the chatbot style and is extolling the API style being accessed constantly by agents, and that has no upper bound. Roughly $10-ish per Megatokens. $10-ish per 1K web searches. etc.

This doesn't sound "minimal" to me. This sounds like every single "task" I kick off is $10. And it can kick those tasks and costs off very quickly in an automated fashion. It doesn't take many of those tasks before I'm paying more than an actual full developer.

Ref: https://claude.com/pricing#api


This is exactly the type of thing that AI code writers don't do well - understand the prioritization of feature development.

Some developers say 3-4 seconds are important to them, others don't. Who decides what the truth is? A human? ClawdBot?


The humans in the company (correctly) realised that a few seconds to open basically the most powerful productivity agent ever made so they can focus on fast iteration of features is a totally acceptable trade off priority wise. Who would think differently???

This is my point...

You kinda suggested the opposite

> Some developers say 3-4 seconds are important to them, others don't.

Wasnt GTA 5 famous for very long start up time and turns out there some bug which some random developer/gamer found out and gave them a fix?

Most Gamers didnt care, they still played it.


Cmd+F - "Overfitting"...nothing.

Nope, no mention of how they do anything to alleviate overfitting. These benchmarks are getting tiresome.


Call for pricing.

1. This isn't rooted in data but anecdotes "One Series E CEO told me that they’re re-evaluating the quarterly renewal of their engineering productivity software because they along with an engineer reimplemented something using Github and Notion APIs. They were paying $30,000 to a popular tool3 and they were not going to renew anymore."

2. These anecdotes are about tech startups spend, not your <insert average manufacturing business>. Nor or they grounded in data that says "we interviewed 150 SMB companies and 40% of them have cancelled their SaaS subscriptions and replaced it with vibe coded tools"

3. "Analysts are writing notes titled “No Reasons to Own” software stocks." - there is just one analyst saying this: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/no-reasons-own-software-stock...

4. Most of these SaaS tech stocks have been trading at all time highs...this smells of "explain something very complex with a simple anecdote"

EDIT: Oh lol, the author has a vibe coding SaaS offering...there ya go.


As someone who works in the B2B SaaS space...

- If our customers vibe coded better integration points for us, it probably improves our overall value to our customers.

- The software industry, especially startups, is such an insignificant portion of the market, its not really worth worrying about. But, I can tell you from experience, that even large software companies don't want their own developers spending much time on accounting, ERP, or HRIS systems and they "outsource" this to SaaS companies.


It would be amusing if somebody parodied this article titled "AI is killing speculative articles about AI".

Not what you are asking for, but the Onion has some AI tips: https://theonion.com/tips-for-using-ai/

Fav tips:

- Give the AI restraints, like “Don’t tell me to kill myself as part of this stir-fry recipe.”

- Fact-check any information provided by asking the follow-up question “Are you sure?”

- Offset your water footprint by not bathing for 72 hours after each use.


Exactly. This sounds like a barber advising which haircut to get.

That too on a 30k contract. That CEO likely sells some AI software and is under tremendous VC pressure to show AI investment.

Yes, and the content itself is clearly AI generated marketing nonsense.

Yeah, this is just long-form linkedin slop. He's thought-leadering to get you to get his (no-doubt slop-written) guides and do leadgen for his forthcoming saas.

sigh.


Yeah, also if a SaaS costs, 10k a year, I promise its not not more cost effecient to pull your 10k a month engineer off their usual work to build and then maintain some vibe coded slope everytime an edge case occurs.

Also many customers of SaaS have little to zero engineering staff, they are in construction, resturaunts, law offices ect. These takes are so assanine.


Even in companies that have SWE, do you really want to divert in-house SWE time to something as exciting as ... accounting rules and making sure your inventory is auditable? Or any number of the weird compliance things associated with most B2B software for a medium-size business?

Is there a place on the internet where folks like yourself, who seemingly have a way to think economically congregate? I personally dont know of one, for which if I did, I wouldnt visit here anymore.

So many takes on here are so lazy and simpleton that when you go a few levels deeper all the flaws get exposed.


Its called PolyMarket

... where they come with their own idiosyncratic mental/moral flaws

you gotta treat communities like newspapers - acknowledge their bias and diversify


Its funny you mention this, I was going to say that the only communities I've found online where +EV thinking is the norm is in professional gambling circles. However, those exist basically only in closed off discord and telegram chats, where we are actively manipulating polymarket/kalshi markets && comment sections :)

Also interesting.

> we want recent examples just look at tailwindui since it's technically a SaaS.

This is a terrible example. Show me someone ripping out their SAP ERP or SalesForce CRM system where they're paying $100k+ for a vibe coded alternative and I'll believe this overall sentiment.


These examples are going to be lagging indicators of the underlying sentiment.

Just because it cannot be done today, doesn't mean there is not a real appetite in large enterprises to do exactly this.

Without naming names, I know of at least one public company with a real hunger for exactly this eventuality.


I have heard this from execs at public companies as well. I think a HUGE part of this appetite is that today no one has yet been subjected to doing business on a bunch of apps cobbled together by vibe coders.

They are just hearing the promise that AI will allow them to build custom software that perfectly melds to their needs in no time at all, and think it sounds great.

I suspect the early adopters who go this route are going to be in for a rude awakening that AI hasn’t actually solved a lot of hard problems in custom software development.


In the world of B2B software many of the 'hard problems in custom software development' have not been solved by human coders either - it can be an extremely grim market for anyone who cares about software quality. I'm completely unconvinced that on average a vibe-coded app is worse than the typical B2B slop.

Exactly — that’s why SaaS isn’t going away.

I too have an appetite for magic beans, but unfortunately, I'll be unable to eat them until they exist. As it stands now, it doesn't seem like AI stuff can produce anything with this large a scope.

So, do their AI devs have deep knowledge of the business processes, regulations/legal (of course in all kinds of regions), scaling, security, ... ? Because the LLMs sure as hell are lacking that knowledge (again, in depth).

Of course, once AGI is available (if it is ever) everything changes. But for now someone needs to have the deep expertise.


> I know of at least one public company with a real hunger for exactly this eventuality.

Hunger or actually putting real investment against it? I'll wait.


>> This is a terrible example. Show me someone ripping out their SAP ERP or SalesForce CRM system where they're paying $100k+ for a vibe coded alternative and I'll believe this overall sentiment.

I cannot imagine an SMB or fortune 500 ripping out Salesforce or SAP. However, I can see a point-tool going away (e.g., those $50/mo contracts which do something tiny like connect one tool to another.)


Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: