Cloudflare | New York City, Austin, London, Lisbon, San Francisco, Seattle | Full Time
I’m hiring for some (IMHO) really fun product manager roles on Cloudflare’s Developer Platform (workers.cloudflare.com)
- Workers Runtime - Set vision for our V8 isolate based runtime that lets people deploy JS, TS, Rust and Python to the globe in seconds with great dev ex.
- Containers - Help build our new containers platform into the best place for both agent Sandboxes and stateless global apps.
- AI Agents - Define what Agents on Cloudflare look like: from our AgentsSDK, to Sandboxes, to MCP Servers, “Code Mode” (see our blog) and more.
We’re a really technical group, and tend to like product managers that can straddle the line between engineer and PM. You should be able to set high-level vision, understand architectural constraints, and be technical enough to really deeply understand our users (developers).
email: <my-hn-username>@cloudflare.com - Please add “HackerNews” to the subject line.
Nomad does not seem much simpler to me (especially because you basically have to pair it with Consul and Vault)
Hi, Nomad PM here - We've gotten this feedback a lot and have been taking steps to respond to it. We added simple service discovery in Nomad 1.3 and health checks and load balancing shortly after. So you shouldn't need Consul until you want a full service mesh. And then in Nomad 1.4, which just launched, we added Nomad Variables. These can be used for basic secrets & config management. It isn't a full on replacement for Vault, but it should give people the basic functionality to get off the ground.
So going forward we won't have a de factor dependency on these other tools, and hopefully we can live up to the promise of simplicity.
I am generally an RCV fan, but I think you're writing off this critique a bit too quickly.
Even with multiple axes the critique is still correct right? And I think (far from an expert) that there's decent evidence to support hotelling's law and median voter theorem.
Hi! I actually made a similar site for my own purposes - https://poller.io - and I've been using it with friends for a while.
One interesting finding. I was expecting that Instant Runoff would be the method we all preferred. I also included plurality winner, Borda Count and the Condorcet winner (if there was one) in the list of results. After using this with friends for decisions, I realized that a lot of choices that did very well in borda count were getting eliminated in the IRV. If you have a lot of options in the poll, there's a good chance that an option that will make the majority happy gets eliminated because it has very few first place votes. Academically, I knew this was a possibility, but in practice it happened a ton. This made us change to borda counts as our method of choice for things (and then we promised to not game the system). But... if there's a Condorcet Winner, we always go with that.
I also thought that having a borda count as the method of eliminating the "last place" choice in each IRV round would be kinda nifty. This still lets people game the system though, and is kind of a gross hack.
Just letting you know our experience in case it is helpful for future options on polls! Good luck!
After spending a notable portion of my life diving deeply into voting systems, their side effects, and the various poorly-thought-out arguments that people make, I basically only feel wincing pain when a lot of these projects come out. So I'm glad that the concept of the Condorcet Winner hasn't been forgotten.
The IRV zealots have basically won the messaging war, using what I believe to be unethical tactics. IRV is not the only way to count RCV, but they act like it is. But power is power, so until society suffers enough with lousy results, it's just going to be the FPTP pain all over again, dressed up in different clothing.
cordorcet methods are overly complicated and don't optimize the right thing. the goal is maximal social utility in the face of strategic behavior. cardinal methods are simpler and generally better at this.
Apparently "candidate that would beat all others head to head should win" isn't the right thing? You'll need to explain that.
> maximal social utility
Some folks define social utility as erring toward more passionate voters, which is a potential problem with all cardinal methods. If they don't elect the Condorcet Winner, they are fatally flawed for any election that purports to be democratic.
Not at all. Score Voting as usually defined is continuous on [0,1]. Rescaling to e.g. [1,5] doesn't change this. Restricting to integers on that does; but if there are fewer than 5 candidates, equivalent rankings can still differ for total scores. It's only equivalent if you pick an integer scale [K, K+N] with N candidates, K arbitrary.
That said, I prefer score, or even approval, as that's what strategic score devolves to, but without huge amounts of information loss.
> if there are fewer than 5 candidates, equivalent rankings can still differ for total scores
I’m having a hard time following, can you give an example?
I’m saying that Borda allows voters to give one candidate 5 points, one other 4 points, etc. and score would allow voters to give as many candidates 5 points, as many candidates 4 points, etc.
I'm not super familiar with score, but the advantage in this scenario is that voters call all input the same way and get borda + IRV + a potential condorcet winner.
If you allowed same scores then you can't do both simultaneously and/or the UX gets really funky.
you can do both simultaneously if you count ranked ballots like an election office would: you throw away all tied rankings, and rankings that come after :)
Thanks! And I hadn't come across Poller before. Pretty cool. FYI - RankedVote actually uses a type of Borda Count as its tiebreaking mechanism. Not quite what you're saying, but is better than picking a name out of a hat!
You bring up a lot of interesting points on what people feel happy with after voting. None of these systems is perfect. Each can be picked apart in various ways. That's why I tend to frame things in terms of "does this move things forward from the status quo?"
Oh interesting. If you don't mind me asking, what is the tie breaking mechanism?
And totally agreed on the framing. Also, prepare yourself for the feedback of "we should have a runoff election with the top two" and then people completely rejecting the concept that you've already done the runoff. :)
Hehe...a bunch of Nate Cohn's in your friend group? :-)
In the event multiple choices have the same number of votes and those choices are the lowest vote getters in the round, RankedVote calculates a Borda Score for each of those candidates across all ballots that were cast. Basically just saying "Ok, these three candidates were tied, which one was ranked lowest on average across the entire group of voters?" And then eliminate that one.
No, but only because I have been too lazy to update the code.
If I had more free time, I would probably add Star and Approval and then try to use Star with my group of friends. Maybe OP can save me the trouble by adding to his site ! :)
Honestly, for things like "where should we eat" Approval is the method I do with my friends. It's quick and easy. No need to write anything down. Just thumbs up if you like the suggestion and then we take the place with the most thumbs up.
I made a website for using ranked choice voting for online polls - https://poller.io - It has been nice to be able to do a quick Ranked Choice Instant Runoff Vote or Borda Count when deciding on things with friends (i.e. where to go on a trip, or which board game to play).
I "marketed" it by posting on HN and Reddit, but that's about it.
Want to work on an alternative to Kubernetes made by the creators of Terraform, Consul, Vagrant, and Vault? Come work on Nomad at HashiCorp! Our team builds and maintains a highly-scalable, flexible distributed cluster orchestrator. Nomad helps teams run varied workloads including containers, VMs, and raw binaries. Cloudflare, PagerDuty, Roblox, Pandora, and many other large organizations run Nomad in production today.
We are currently looking for both backend and frontend engineers interested in solving hard problems in the DevOps space, tackling interesting distributed systems challenges, and/or working on open source software.
Our stack: Golang & Ember (experience in either is nice to have, but not a hard requirement)
Feel free to reach out to me, a PM on the team, at mnomitch (at) hashicorp (dot) com if you are interested!
Want to work on an alternative to Kubernetes made by the creators of Terraform, Consul, Vagrant, and Vault? Come work on Nomad at HashiCorp! Our team builds and maintains a highly-scalable, flexible distributed cluster orchestrator. Nomad helps teams run varied workloads including containers, VMs, and raw binaries. Cloudflare, PagerDuty, Roblox, Pandora, and many other large organizations run Nomad in production today.
We are currently looking for both backend and frontend engineers interested in solving hard problems in the DevOps space, tackling interesting distributed systems challenges, and/or working on open source software.
Our stack: Golang & Ember (experience in either is nice to have, but not a hard requirement)
Want to work on an alternative to Kubernetes made by the creators of Terraform, Consul, Vagrant, and Vault? Come work on Nomad at HashiCorp! Our team builds and maintains a highly-scalable, flexible distributed cluster orchestrator. Nomad helps teams run varied workloads including containers, VMs, and raw binaries. Cloudflare, PagerDuty, Roblox, Pandora, and many other large organizations run Nomad in production today.
We are currently looking for both backend and frontend engineers interested in solving hard problems in the DevOps space, tackling interesting distributed systems challenges, and/or working on open source software.
Our stack: Golang & Ember (experience in either is nice to have, but not a hard requirement)
I’m hiring for some (IMHO) really fun product manager roles on Cloudflare’s Developer Platform (workers.cloudflare.com) - Workers Runtime - Set vision for our V8 isolate based runtime that lets people deploy JS, TS, Rust and Python to the globe in seconds with great dev ex. - Containers - Help build our new containers platform into the best place for both agent Sandboxes and stateless global apps. - AI Agents - Define what Agents on Cloudflare look like: from our AgentsSDK, to Sandboxes, to MCP Servers, “Code Mode” (see our blog) and more.
We’re a really technical group, and tend to like product managers that can straddle the line between engineer and PM. You should be able to set high-level vision, understand architectural constraints, and be technical enough to really deeply understand our users (developers).
email: <my-hn-username>@cloudflare.com - Please add “HackerNews” to the subject line.
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