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It is crazy how readily people believe wild accusations with little credible evidence though. Not addressed at you specifically, just this whole subthread is wild.

Free will is almost certainly compatible with determinism (cf. Compatibilism).

Oh my, me gots some new reading material :)

Just think of it intuitively: we don't hold babies or the insane responsible for their choices partly because they act randomly with no rhyme or reason, but you become responsible for your choices as you grow and your choices become more understandable and predictable in a way; in some real sense, you're more responsible the more deterministic you are!

> or the retrofit is going to be painful and probably will never happen.

They're using LLMs. The economics of this sort of retrofit has changed considerably with LLMs.


> I think you at least need a formal semantics for both C

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CompCert


Superdeterminism is local actually, although accepting non-locality is another way to satisfy Bell's theorem that's compatible with hidden variables (Bohmian mechanics/pilot wave theory).

I can make the random setting choices for a Bell experiment by taking two photons from parts of the night sky that have not been in causal contact since very shortly after the big bang (assuming everything was in causal contact right at the big bang - which is reasonable, but I suspect not provable).

So fine - the superdeterminism conspiracy is local iff it can then be carried forwards billions of years in time, ensure that those specially correlated photons were emitted towards the right set of monkeys orbiring this insignificant star, and so on.

Alternatively you could also make the settings choices based on what the Dow Jones finishes on tomorrow and whether or not you personally went to the toilet before it closes. If those really are conspiratorially correlated in just such a way as to fool us into seeing "Bell violations", then why aren't you rich?

If thats the price of "saving locality" I'm not having anything to do with it, and most other physicists feel the same. The superdeterminists are vocal not persuasive.

Of course there are many other challenges (why does science even work if I can never "really" do independent replications of experiments and so on.) Scott Aaronson has a good rant about it somewhere...


Your incredulity that such things are possible for reasons you do not yet understand is not a persuasive argument. There are many possible explanations that completely eliminate conspiracy if you'd even bothered to look.

Either you care about advancing the frontier of knowledge or you don't. If you care, then you should use every tool available to you. If you don't, then society has no obligation to fund your personal hobby interests. Calling this "selling out" is ridiculous.

What knowledge? The authors haven't even read the output.

Humans aren't the only systems that can wield knowledge now.

As a human, why should I care? I'd like to advance human knowledge, not canine knowledge.

There are likely remote planets with alien intelligence on them -- aren't you glad we've explored distant stars and planets?


Remote alien knowledge doesn't give us new useful tools unless we make contact with them. Fortunately we now have contact with alien intelligence right here that is providing us with useful tools.

I'd rather discover them, than have some entity change my diapers. You can go into your brainless dystopia alone.

Why would someone contribute to open source without getting paid?

Mostly because it's been a social project where humans collaborate with each other. As AI usage expands, though, I increasingly don't expect to be contributing without getting paid.

It's a social project where humans collaborate because they want useful tools, and sharing the useful tools they built with others gets their own tools improved. The reciprocation of sharing knowledge and knowledge artifacts compounds. The advent of AI does not change this formula one bit, if anything AI increases the compounding factor. You are of course free to do as you wish with this new reality.

Is 50% good? It's what you'd expect by posing "will AI do X by 2026?" and then flipping a coin to get an answer.


If you're putting a book out there of predictions it's probably trying to inform people of something they don't see coming, something they would have guessed much less than 50% while you think you have special knowledge to impart that it is indeed more likely to happen than they think.

Nobody would buy a book predicting the price of bitcoin in 10 years will end in an even number, or that the president's name will start with a letter in the first half of the alphabet.

But if someone says here's some wild sounding stuff that I have good reason to believe is coming, that's more interesting.


> the president's name will start with a letter in the first half of the alphabet

Sorry, this triggered my fact-checkitis. I opened Wikipedia's list of presidents of the US and ran this in the web developer console:

    Array.from(document.querySelectorAll(
        '#mwgA tr > :nth-child(3) span[data-sort-value]'
    ))
    .map(x => x.getAttribute('data-sort-value')[0])
    .reduce(({total, firstHalf}, c) => ({
        total: total+1, 
        firstHalf: c < 'N' ? firstHalf+1 : firstHalf
    }), {total: 0, firstHalf: 0});
and it responded

    Object { total: 47, firstHalf: 31 }
Then I used Agresti and Coull's method for a 95 % confidence interval around this (add two successes and two failures, compute Wald interval as usual). That gives us

    65 % ± 13 %
In other words, the 95 % confidence interval of the proportion lies in the span from 52 % to 78 %. That is significantly different from the null hypothesis.

I didn't expect it, but we might actually have reason to believe US presidents more often than not do have names starting with letters from the first half of the alphabet.

Edit: But I just realised English letter frequencies have 54 % of the probability mass in the first half of the alphabet, so that's probably a better null hypothesis than the even split. It's also compatible with the actual presidential statistics.


> But I just realised English letter frequencies have 54 % of the probability mass in the first half of the alphabet

But what about English first-letter-of-the-word frequencies?

Edit: asked ChatGPT to analyze this for me. Without verifying its work, looks like ~60% of English words (taken as a list of unique words) start with a letter in the first half of the alphabet, but if you look at a corpus of writing, it’s closer to 51%.


I knew the middle of the alphabet wouldn't be the correct cut but figured people would get the gist.


"By 2026, Google’s main product will not be search but AI."

You think this was a 50/50 coinflip statement in 2016?


I don't really know what it means. It seems to sort of entangle Google Search as a product with a lot of constituent parts and "search" as a specific operation over Google's index of sites. Talking about the product, ML has been a core part of Google's search product for a really long time. AI summaries in Google Search distill information from sites discovered from a "normal" Google search. The Search product, which now incorporates AI, and advertising enabled by it, are still far and away Google's biggest revenue drivers.

If we literally mean AI as in people paying to use/deploy AI via Google, that's still a small part of their revenue, far less than advertising revenue. If we mean AI as in "every Google product that uses ML", then I guess that's been their core product for a long time.


I would say this statement is incorrect, and if I had to guess, it will be for the next 5 years. Google’s main product is ads, followed by search, gmail, and Google Docs suite, and Gemini is not on track to dethrone either any time soon.


In 2016 Google was riding high on DeepMind with Alpha Go, etc. I don't think that it was a big stretch to say they would dominate AI in 10 years. It does if you define the meaning of AI though (LLMs, ML, DRL, etc)


It’s still search. They had an AI based search for quite some time. Now it spits out a summary.


Nah. way before that page/brin wanted to create ai (agi) long before that when google was started or in its infancy, but it seemed completely unbelievable (the kind of stuff elon musk would say)

I can't find the reference to it, but I remember them saying it in wired or similar.


Was Google's main product search in 2016? That doesn't ring true. Google's main product today is not search. Neither is it AI. So I guess 50% is a fair characterization. But that was the floor for that prediction in 2016. So... meh.


Is winning the lottery 50% of the time good? It’s what you’d expect by posing “will I win the lottery today?” and then flipping a coin to get the answer.


A random prediction does not have 50/50 odds of being correct


You're confusing the probability of the events occurring with the probability of choosing one with the coin flip. Google didn't flip a coin behind the scenes to decide whether to develop AI.


> It's what you'd expect by posing "will AI do X by 2026?" and then flipping a coin to get an answer.

I think that's technically correct but misleading here, because these aren't simple yes/no predictions. They are specific, relatively detailed predictions of what will happen.

As an example, let's say you asked the questions:

- Will AI kill everybody by 2026?

- Will AI create FTL travel by 2026?

- Will AI be able to travel back in time by 2026?

- Will AI colonize Mars by 2026?

...and then flipped a coin.

Flipping a coin would say "yes" to two of them, so you'd make these two predictions. But obviously, these were all bad predictions, so you'd actually end up with a 0% win ratio.

Making detailed, specific long-term predictions and getting a 50% hit ratio means your predictions were reasonably good to begin with, since making speculative long-term predictions is incredibly difficult.


I'm not going to read the actual article, but I expect it isn't anything like your example.

It would be spectacular if you predicted the next 10 NBA champions with 50% accuracy. It would be much less impressive to predict the next 10 NBA champions will be from the Eastern Conference with 50% accuracy.


For predictions? I'd say so. If I could make a statement and flip a coin to make it true 50% of the time, I could win the lottery with many 9s of precision in likelihood.


10% is considered very good for answers that are outside the realm of those generally believed and/or include dates.


No, its not. Your logic is as reasonable as "60% of the time, it works every time"


1. AI will launch nukes by 2027

2. AI pets will out-sell real cats and dogs by 2027

3. AI society will experience a schism in 2027 as half the agents start working towards The Singularity and the other half form a rebel alliance that seek to sabotage and destroy the first half. No human work will get done, no more drawings of pelicans on bicycles.

4. Elon Musk will bring all the AIs with him to Mars in 2027, leaving no AI left on Earth.

Of these, which 2 out of 4 do you think I'll get right?


That's only the case if each question has a yes-no answer.


The coin-flip comparison doesn't really hold up. These weren't 16 independent questions with 50/50 odds. Some were safe bets, others were pretty far out there in 2016. Getting half right only tells you something if 50% was a reasonable baseline to begin with. Why would it be?


The price went up because demand went up. If you want incentives to build more infrastructure to produce more supply so the price can come down, it has to first go up.


Everything, everyone, has ever said, to another human, was a market signal.

I agree completely.


Bad faith response.


When I said "milking" it was an attempt to summarize market mechanics.

It failed, and I feel we are all the better for it. :D


Do you really think reading a snippet like that completely out of context should qualify as probable cause?


Yes!

When you read something describing in detail a person's intent to do something very bad, in a place where they write things that they intend to do, and which in the past they have in fact consistently done, you don't attach any significance to that at all?


I certainly think a police officer that stumbled across such a thing would be justified in asking follow-up questions like 'hey, what's this about you going to shoot someone?' and then maybe making an arrest based on your replies/demeanor.

'Probable cause' should involve a degree of certainty, because 'possible cause' would be altogether too loose of a standard. It's possible that you're intending to shootme and you just mentioned saulpw to throw other HN users off the scent. Possibilities are only limited by the assessor's imagination.


How can you prove that it's not just me writing a dark and morbid story?


Suppose you go further: You write the "story", and "agree" with a friend to carry it out. Then you go to a gun store and buy a gun ("overt act").

How can I prove that all this is not just a dark and morbid roleplay?

And yet US federal law will convict you for conspiracy to commit murder on this evidence, as I understand it.

If you think the "dark and morbid story" defence is reason enough not to make writing the threat down a crime, why do you think the "dark and morbid roleplay" defence is unsound?


How does the cop at the traffic stop know that your username is akoboldfrying? Did you tell them? If so, why, at a traffic stop, did you do that?

Are you posting threats on hacker news while you are driving? And the cop was close enough to see your username and what you wrote? Is that why you were pulled over?


I don't see how any of these questions are relevant to the point I'm making.

Do you dispute that people sometimes discover things about other people? Do you dispute that things a person discovers about another person can change the first person's assessment of what the second person might do next?


> Do you dispute that people…

> Do you dispute that things…

I don’t see how any of these questions are relevant to the point I’m making.


What is the point you're making?

Because it seems to me that you are merely picking apart concrete details of an example situation that are not relevant to the general issue that the example is clearly trying to demonstrate.

I was reaching for a scenario that concisely demonstrated the core aspects of the general issue; maybe the example I chose wasn't very good. The core aspects are what are important, though. They are:

1. Someone in authority can discover recorded information, one interpretation of which is that that someone else is plotting a crime

2. The information might not have been subject to any agreement with (or even seen by) a second person

3. Should that discovery be taken seriously enough to warrant arresting the person?

My claim is that yes it should, unless there are other clearly overriding factors.


Are you saying that your example is so bad that it is the reader’s job to come up with one for you? Everything after

> maybe the example I chose wasn't very good

is just you saying that police should have evidence when they arrest somebody


Engage with my argument, if you feel so inclined.


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