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So iroh is basically WebRTC, except it works in and outside of a browser. Relays seems quite similar to TURN/STUN servers except they also handle fallback traffic much like TOR guard/relay nodes

It's backwards! Unlike webrtc, iroh doesn't work inside a browser. It's for the case where you have two native apps that need to talk to each other p2p.

For browser / webapps you want webrtc.


> We built & continually check that iroh can compile to WASM & run in the browser

Does WebRTC not work inside/outside of the browser anywhere?

It works outside the browser too, I've been using it that way.

Yes it does! I was trying to draw an analogy there, I think it would be better to state as - iroh is similar to WebRTC + PeerJS[1] which only works on browsers, generally[2].

[1]: PeerJS(https://peerjs.com/) is a library to use WebRTC w/o any boilerplate code. [2]: WebRTC functionality can be enabled in non-browser envs like Node.js by using third-party native addons (like node-webrtc) that provide bindings to the underlying C++ WebRTC library.


Can the relay servers, when used as fallback, read the data between two parties by providing its own public key to both of the peers?

As I understand it the “peer ID” you dial acts like the public key, of the public/private key pair. So the public key doesn’t come from the relay. You need to do the initial public key/ID exchange out of band, and then dial the connection to each other via the relay.

So the relay is never in a position to send you the wrong public key, because it doesn’t give it to you in the first place.


No. The data in each direction is encrypted by TLS, using ephemeral keys.

Only the owner of the corresponding private key can initiate a connection from their public key, or receive a connection attempt to their public key.

Let's say you have alice and bob talking via a relay. Even if you have the private key of alice, you can impersonate alice to bob, but not vice versa. So you can't initiate a connection between the two.

To really intercept data you would need the private keys of both participants.


cool site thank you for sharing!

> DeltaDB captures every operation in between and gives each one a stable identity

Gives jj vibes, interesting!



Cool, didn't ever hear about it! Thanks for sharing.

Don't you think they have a legit skill issue here and should they be better off upskilling themselves?

This is a direct effect of being a low barrier industry to enter. Most of the ppl among us are mostly here because of a good paycheck. And it SUCKS!


>Don't you think they have a legit skill issue here and should they be better off upskilling themselves?

Absolutely agree! Just because I understand how they got there doesn't mean I think it's a good state of affairs ;)

My post was already quite long, and I didn't want to append a treatise on what one should do when encountering those engineers. It depends on many details. Avoid hiring them, if that's a power you have. If you are stuck working with them, depending on your authority, encourage them to learn or force them to learn. If you're coming in to clean up after them... well, hopefully your comp is worth the annoyance.

We are all simultaneously in the position of encountering "the world as it is", understanding it, and doing what we can to improve it.


Why should you necessarily avoid hiring them? You yourself said that they are not stupid. Maybe some of them are very good, hardworking employees. And if all your company needs is a react app, does it matter that much that those people are unfamiliar with building websites without react? Maybe they've spent all their working hours doing work for their employer's company, leaving no time to learn other ways of building websites.

The thing is, people often assume that bootcampers/self-taught devs are only in it for the money and do not "care about the craft", or else they would have studied CS in the first place. But this is not true: There are many reasons why someone could have found their passion for software engineering only later in life. Some of the best engineers I know are self-taught or bootcampers.


Yep. It’s also an attitude problem. A lot of devs are able to up-skill just fine, but some are downright demeaning towards anything they don’t understand, or towards anything that doesn’t come from a FAANG.

“HTML only? Nobody is doing it!”



This brain is interesting. Basically you get a no for everything you ask, right?

You get whatever you assign 0 to. You can combine it with other simple building blocks like f(x) = ~x to do large calculations to answer more complicated questions.

I have still so many questions left, but regardless of that it was a great read. Thanks for sharing!

Please throw them here, I like to play around with questions, simplify them, and will try to write next part of this!

op literally wrote `sem unsetup` in their comment, so, I don't see what is "tone deaf" in this comment!

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