And most importantly - limit housing speculation e.g. don't allow private equity to buy those.

Housing should not be a speculative investment or a wealth growth vehicle.

Housing must be a commodity.

>> people who say they "vibecoded an app in 30 minutes" are either building simple copies of existing projects,

those are not copies, they aren't even features. usually part of a tiny feature that barely works only in demo.

with all vibe coding in the world today you still need at least 6 months full time to build a nice note taking app.

If we are talking something more difficult - it will be years - or you will need a team and it will still take a long time.

Everything less will result in an unusable product that works only for demo and has 80% churn.

Can you expand on this? You definitely don’t need 6 months for a note taking app to be useable it is more you need to compete with the state of the art right

I'd argue you need between 6 minutes and 6 years.

It depends entirely on what you want. You can literally code a JavaScript 1-liner that will make a <textarea> then put the content back in the URL and it will work serverless on pretty much any platform with a Web browser.

You can also write a note taking app that will be federated yet private, that will have its own scripting language, etc. I mean you can yak-shave your way to write your own OS or even designing your own CPU for that.

So... I'm not sure that metric, time, means much without a proper context, including who does it. It's quite different if to do that, regardless of the tooling used, if you are a professional developer, designer, fullstack dev, prototypist, PM, marketer, writer, etc.

> Can you expand on this?

sure. does your note taking app supports formatting? you don't need it today. you will need it at some point. images? same.

does it handle file corruption etc? no? then its pretty much useless.

does it work across devices? in modern world, again, it is pretty much useless without it

it works across devices? then it needs hosting. if it is hosted it needs auth, it needs backups

you can go on for ever.

the bar for very minimal note taking app that you actually will use is very high, with other software it is even higher.

and this is not even state of art, this is must haves

Obsidian is super popular and is generally local first and device specific.

And even so if your starting a note taking app most of those problems like file corruption and image support are largely solved problems. There is also the benefit of being able to reference tons of open source implementations.

I think one month to notion like app that is prod ready if you just need Auth + markdown + images + standard text editing

>with all vibe coding in the world today you still need at least 6 months full time to build a nice note taking app.

Bad example, note apps loaded with features are anti-productive and are for people who treat note taking as a hobby itself.

You have Obsidian anyway if you want something open source to work with.

Ah, note taking as hobby finally explains to me why these apps seem so popular. I don't think I have ever considered that I need one. And it to be something that shouldn't be fully solved multiple times now. But it really being hobby does kinda make the point for me.

I don't disagree, but I found it ironic I built ZenPlan, my ideal hybrid task/notetaking app, in about 50 hours with Claude Code this month after being frustrated with notebook and task management sprawl in OneNote. www.getzenplan.com

obsidian isn't open source

What universe do you live in

You seem to be making the assumption that "app" means "sellable product", rather than "one off that works for me". It doesn't.

When everyone is able to make their own one off prototype in 30 minutes, no one will pay for the thing that took someone 6 months.

whatever you prototype - the one who built it in 6 month will have economy of scale to make it cheaper than your diy solution, and because they serve many customers and developed it for 6 months - their product will be 100x better than the one you diy

there is very very rare use case when diy makes sense. in 99% of cases its just a toy that feels nice as you kinda did it. but if you factor in the time etc it is always costs 100x more than $5/month you could usually buy

Based on your earlier comment and your last paragraph, your impression of AI vibe coding ability is at least a year out of date.

In late 2024 it might have taken 6 months. Today, two weeks, maybe 3.

With that logic LEGO sets and Salesforce subscriptions should be virtually free due to their economy of scale

>> can all tell

the reality is most users can't tell. you can see it under every ai post on reddit, unless it is creaming ai in every word.

Most of those replies are also AI

You mean people already employed bot gangs to boost retention just to squeeze out some authentic human feedback juice?

> there are enough people who know their stuff

unless the bar for "know their stuff" is very very low - this is not the case in the nearest future

>> If others with AI will deliver that value cheaper...

That's the most interesting thing - in 99.9% they don't. All their value is negated by lowering code base quality, pushing slop to prod ("but code reviews..." - don't help sorry, unless you spent a long time getting to understand a problem - simply reading a solution gives only false confidence that you understood it - you didn't, not fully). E.g. see all the outages at amazon, cloudflare, etc.

Quick short term wins lead to big longer term losses - and this is already happening.

The issue is - its basically impossible to make decision makers see this as this requires many years of expertise in tech, and it is very not obvious, and sounds like you just don't want to rely on AI to replace you etc etc.

While selling AI is easy - "look! it did this feature in 5 minutes! so much productivity".

It does not matter how much stuff is built. What matters is what comes out of it.

And with AI the result of 99.9% is abandonware. Just piles of code no one will ever touch again.

Which proves the point of no productivity gains. Its just cheap dopamine hits.

The user you're responding too lists a "blood test viewer" [0], which looks to be a tool that turns his blood test PDFs into structured and analyzed data. You're saying that unless he continuously revises/upgrades the code, it's still "abandonware" even if it meets his needs for the near future?

[0] https://github.com/skorokithakis/dracula

Bit rot is real. The dependencies listed here include calling into AI APIs that will stop working with time. So yes if no one keeps this up to date it will rot into useless likely very quickly.

That’s not even mentioning that this tools doesn’t do much beyond wrap a call to Claude. And it’s using Claude to display blood test data to the end user. This is not something I’d trust an LLM to not mess up. You’d really want to double check every single result.

Also humans are not bots.

We hate having to feel like we have to double check everything. We have an asymmetric relationship with gains and losses etc.

Is it me or is this stuff flying over peoples heads?

Just saying, you can paste the sample report into ChatGPT and it does the same thing, and even creates interactive graphs for you. Im not sure how useful something is if a chatbot can do it, with the side benefit of being able to ask for follow up questions.

i guess the custom UI makes you believe you can trust the output, as if there’s any thought going into it rather than just an LLM hallucinating for you

Missing the point. I no longer need to buy or rely on someone else for software I want to use. A lot of things I want to do ARE one offs. I can write software and throw it away when I'm done.

I know this sounds sarcastic but I really mean it: For years everyone has been monastically extolling some variation of "the best code is deleted code". Now, we have a machine that spits out infinite code that we can infinitely delete. It's a blessing that we can have shitty code generated that exposes at light speed how shitty our ideas are and have always been.

A nicer framing is original ideas and original thinking in general is very hard and doesn't come around very often.

Steve Jobs once said a thing about the belief that an idea is 90% of the work is a disease. He is and was absolutely right.

You still need to spend plenty of time verifying they work though unless it’s something where that truly doesn’t matter.

Abandonware is what the customer wants.

Constant enshittification and UI redesigns are driven by the provider to justify monthly extortion.

and we all know why

Because they're moving it to Azure and doing it far too quickly, not taking care to avoid availability issues

It wasn't the migration to Azure that completely borked their PR UI.

Could be.

Or could be that the recent 12 months of 100x increase in code and activity is more than they had planned for when they last did capacity planning.

Vibe-coders, many of them here, often boast about the insane amount of KLoC/hour they can generate and merge.

I've seen this take in another GitHub thread, but are there any stats confirming this? As far as I know a lot of Github stats are publicly available, and can be queried via Clickhouse.

There may be other problems but as someone who's somehow ended up integrating Git into a service twice in my career without even trying that hard to find a reason (it turns out it's weirdly handy in quite a few situations, god I wish it were implemented as a library and not a pile of Perl and shit, and yes I know about libgit2) and has looked into some of Git's and Gitlab's posts about their architectures over the years though the lens of having fought a few of the same beasts, an Azure migration was very obviously going to make things worse.

yeah, ai slop rush

everyone builds off vibes and moves fast! like no, if you are a mature company you don't need to move fast, in fact you need to move slow

the only thing that can kill e.g. github is if they move fast and break things like they do recently

>> who literally hadn't even completed an HTML course.

so what is their value? proxy your requests to ai?

Their value is it's my brother and I need a human brain to be able to slowly morph into a developer over time.

So I suppose, sorta, yes. The expectation is to proxy AI requests while building a mental framework for how software is built.

It’s not a joke. This is funny because it is true.

Looks very much like like a signature gemini ui.