Strava (a running tracking app) provides two helpful controls you can set as your default:
1. “Hide the start and end points of activities that start at SPECIFIC addresses.”
2. “Hide start and end no matter where they happen.”
Then it can be useful to add your home/work/routine locations.
If iNaturalist doesn’t have a setting like that, it’s a nice approach — especially if it’s included as part of initial onboarding flow — so it helps people without needing to remember to make visibility choices each time.
> Treating it like a stop sign also doesn't work very well when there are huge amounts of pedestrians. As a pedestrian that yesterday meant I got the right of way all the time. For cars it was mayhem downtown.
I’ve long been curious if people in S.F. who are used to Waymo “behavior” – including myself – behave differently when a Waymo is involved. For the most part, Waymos are extremely predictable and if you’re on the road as a pedestrian, cyclist, or car, are you more aggressive and willing to assert your turn in the road? Curious if Waymo has done a psychological study of how we start to think about the vehicles. I know many runners, for example, that’ll stride right into the crosswalk in front of a Waymo but wouldn’t dare to do that in front of other cars. Similarly, anecdotally people treat public transit vehicles differently than a civilian car: folks are more willing to let them drive even if out of natural turn.
Prior to reading the article, I assumed Waymos were stuck due to an Internet connectivity issue. However, while the root cause is not explicitly stated, it sounds like the Waymos are “confused” by traffic lights being out.
I wonder how Waymos know that the traffic lights are out.
A human can combine a ton of context clues. Like, "Well, we just had a storm, and it was really windy, and the office buildings are all dark, and that Exxon sign is normally lit up but not right now, and everything seems oddly quiet. Evidently, a power outage is the reason I don't see the traffic light lit up. Also other drivers are going through the intersection one by one, as if they think the light is not working."
It's not enough to just analyze the camera data and see neither green nor yellow nor red. Other things can cause that, like a burned out bulb, a sensor hardware problem, a visual obstruction (bird on a utility cable), or one of those louvers that makes the traffic light visible only from certain specific angles.
Since the rules are different depending on whether the light is functioning or not, you really need to know the answer, but it seems hard to be confident. And you probably want to err on the side of the most common situation, which is that the lights are working.
I recently had a broken traffic light in my city, it was daylight and I didn't notice any other lights that should be on during the day to be off.
My approach was to get closer into the intersection slowly and judge whether the perpendicular traffic would slow down and also try to figure out what was going on or if they would just zip through like if they had green.
It required some attention and some judgement. It definitely wasn't the normal day to day driving where you don't quite think consciously what you're doing.
I understand that individual autonomous vehicles cannot be expected to be given the responsibility to make such a call and the safest thing to do for them is to have them stop.
But I assumed there were still many human operators that would oversee the fleet and they could make the call that the traffic lights are all off
> miss the time when "confused" for a computer program was meant in a humorous way
Not sure what about this isn’t funny. Nobody died. And the notion that traffic lights going down would not have otherwise caused congestion seems silly.
> what about the emergency services not being able to reach their destinations?
Did they have documented problems?
This is akin to the Waymos honking at each other at 3AM. Annoying. Potentially dangerous in various circumstances. But ultimately just destructive in a way unlikely to repeat.
American cops, fire, and EMS will go upstream on a one way road, or use the sidewalk or the grass if they have to. The Blues Brothers film may even be the material used to train some of the more ambitious departments.
Have you seen how human drivers deal with traffic lights and emergency vehicles at the same time? Waymo made the right call to suspend service, they will probably update their playbook to suspend service during power outages in the future.
Humans certainly are imperfect and make mistakes, but will iterate with the understanding that doing nothing at all and blocking emergency vehicles is untenable.
At the least we will fall back to incentive/disincentive social behavior. People will supply ample friendly and unfriendly advice to try to unwind the knot.
Waymo should lose their operating license based on this experience. It's self-evidently dangerous to everyone to be incapable of basic iteration. There's a whole set of law driver's are supposed to follow for handling failed traffic lights. Why have lower expectations of an anonymous car than a human?
> Waymo should lose their operating license based on this experience.
Then everyone should lose their licenses as well by your draconian reasoning. Because…
> There's a whole set of law driver's are supposed to follow for handling failed traffic lights.
And they don’t, it’s chaos.
> Why have lower expectations of an anonymous car than a human?
You obviously have higher expectations for autonomous cars than humans, it is not the other way around for those of us who disagree with you. The only difference is that Waymo can get better with experience and humans generally don’t.
> > There's a whole set of law driver's are supposed to follow for handling failed traffic lights.
> And they don’t, it’s chaos.
Do you live in areas where traffic lights go out regularly?
Because for human driver it is a non-issue. It becomes an all-way stop and you take turns, it is easy. Traffic throughput slows down a bit, but nothing approaching chaos about it. If waymo can't deal with this, that's a problem.
Developing new technologies has risks. In the absence of anything really bad actually happening, I think we can solve the problem by adding new requirements to Waymo's operating license (and all self driving cars) rather than kneecapping the technology.
That sounds plausible. Humans for the most part can usually navigate that situation to a point. It wouldn't surprise me if Waymo cars weren't even trained for this scenario.
The one time I saw traffic lights go down, it was total chaos. There were two separate crashes that had already happened when I got there, and there would probably be >1 wreck per few minutes with the driving I observed.
I moved from South Africa to Ireland 2 years ago. It was very noticeable to me how drivers in Ireland have no idea what to do when the lights are out. Absolute chaos!
In south africa, traffic lights not working is a daily occurrence. And we've all learned how to navigate a dead intersection wit zero casualties.
Massive 6 way intersections with 2-4 lanes per direction worked perfectly with everyone taking turns to go.
I lived in the training zone for both Waymo and Cruise. They were there for literally years before they were offering rides to anyone. The idea that they could train them for emergency scenarios, especially ones that happen so infrequently like a power outage on a route they regularly drive, seems borderline nonsensical, but I honestly don't know if there is a plausible way to do it.
I live in SF, and drive alongside Waymos every day. Also, they park in my buildings garage, where they frequently cause major delays and blockages inside the garage.
I am pretty sure Waymo does not disclose how many human interventions they get. It would destroy their magic aura. A fancy RC car with self-driving experimental features is not very futuristic after all. By all the evidence, that’s what we observed when the internet went out. I don’t buy the 4-way stop explanation. Waymos handle 4-way stops just fine on an average day. I drive alongside them daily.
I’ve long suspected that they get many human interventions on the road, frequent enough that when the internet connectivity slowed down to a crawl across the city, Waymos could not get themselves unstuck from a variety of situations and simply just blocked the roads. That’s not a paragon of safety, nor is it “self-driving”. Self-driving cars were 10 years away in 2015, and in 2025, they are still 10 years away.
While reading through https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23729160, discussions around Signed Exchanges came up. This is a really neat idea (that’s been around for a while); however, a lot of it depends on the user experience in the browser. Users cannot be expected to know the technical details to get (or understand) the benefits—and we must be wary of some major drawbacks like the cache site seeing the traffic instead the origin.
I’d second this. In fact, I think the README should be the first thing (potentially in collapsible form so you can easily see the file list without scrolling too much).
Intuitively, I’d bet most people landing on the front page of a repo are consumers of the library looking for a README with info on how to get started or where to look for information on how to get started. Again, this is only intuition—no data to back it up. Project maintainers are most likely interacting with the issues and PR sections or code on the command line.
I personally liked this change. Even if it is the MS MO embrace extend extinguish.
If I want to read your readme ill click on your readme. If im visiting your github page I want to read your code.
Eee, theyre downplaying the focus on cross platform friendly md files showing repo info, instead they want you to use the newly more prominent side bar that is wholy only available on github.
Life happens! With all the disruption and WFHing related to COVID, it's important to remember to back up your workstation even if you're not in the office!
This was my thought exactly. The article is great assuming you need to use k8s, but does leave out the important question: does your project or product require k8s and all the overhead it unavoidably entails?
Amazon's Elastic Container Service (ECS) on Fargate deployment type is probably a better option much of the time. Until you maintain your own k8s cluster (including the hosted variants on AWS, GCP, etc.) you might not realize how complex configuring k8s is.
While the AWS's ECS service may be more limited, I've found it leaves less room to do the wrong thing. Unfortunately, the documentation on ECS and the community support is inferior to k8s, but I'll accept that if I don't have to spend a whole day researching what service mesh to use with k8s and how to configure a load balancer and SSL certs.
You are right, but talking about whether to use k8s or not would make the article 2-3x longer. It is a totally different topic.
ECS (with Fargate or EC2) is awesome but one might argue that it is still an overkill for a lot of people.
Some people look for scaling, immutability, effective resource utilization and they think they NEED containers. That is not entirely true. A lot of people would do totally ok with one EC2 instance.
Either way, kubernetes is awesome, there is a big community behind it maintaining a lot of tooling, docs, how-to guides, etc. That is very valuable for a lot of people too :)
> You are right, but talking about whether to use k8s or not would make the article 2-3x longer. It is a totally different topic.
Sorry—my comment was written poorly. I think the article is good as is and agree k8s or not is a different topic. My comment intended to be a reminder for all of us reading it that we should ask more questions before choosing a technology.
I’ve found a trend in engineering (including with myself), we sometimes forget to take a step back and see the forest.
Unless something has changed recently, Fargate is a terrible choice for something that you want up 24x7. IIRC it’s like 2x the cost of similar on demand EC2 instances. It’s better for discrete tasks that can’t run in Lambda because timeout or possibly peak load (although EC2 is probably just as easy if not easier to scale).
But I generally agree with the premise that ECS is a better starting point for people just dipping their toe into containers.
A frontend does not require JavaScript. I've made quite a few useful MVPs and internal tools whose frontend solely consists of dynamically generated HTML pages served via a Python Flask server with Jinja for templating or a Go server with its native template/html package for templating.
If you want to polish the UI a bit consider throwing in some simple CSS—either handrolled or prebuilt with Bootstrap or Semantic UI.
This reply assumes the project serves the UI over the web. For applications that are not hosted apps, I've had CLI tools just spin up a local server with the UI for a quick proof of concept UI.
If you're looking for some alternatives to play around with, I'd also suggest TypeScript (w/ React) or Elm (https://elm-lang.org/). If you like Haskell—and can work fluently in it—Elm is a joy!
1. “Hide the start and end points of activities that start at SPECIFIC addresses.” 2. “Hide start and end no matter where they happen.”
Then it can be useful to add your home/work/routine locations.
If iNaturalist doesn’t have a setting like that, it’s a nice approach — especially if it’s included as part of initial onboarding flow — so it helps people without needing to remember to make visibility choices each time.