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> Violence like this is not the answer.

I know people pretty reflexively downvote questioning this, but I question this. I think some people are afraid that even asking this moral question is somehow inciting violence.

I think it's quite believable that the possibility of force is actually essential to keeping institutions in-line. Certainly a lot of civil rights progress was a lot less peaceful than I was taught in school.


Violence is not the answer if and only if there are non-violent ways to achieve necessary goals.

We seem to go through a cycle where we set up systems that provide non-violent ways of resolving issues, then people get annoyed with the outcomes and break down those systems. They hope that it means they'll always get what they want, but what it actually does is make it so that violence is the only way for others to get what they want.

Like organized labor. We seem to be in a cycle where strong labor organization is seen as inefficient or harmful to business, and it's being suppressed. The people suppressing it seem to think that the end state will be low wages and desperate workers. They've forgotten that collective bargaining didn't spring up from nothing, it's the nicer alternative to descending on the boss's mansion with torches and pitchforks.

All that Civil Rights violence you mention was because those in power did not provide any non-violent way to achieve it. Suppressing votes and legalizing oppression only works up to a point. Eventually people will take by force what they've been denied by law.

Or as JFK said it better than I can: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

The corollary: when peaceful revolution has been made impossible, violent revolution is the answer.


> it's the nicer alternative to descending on the boss's mansion with torches and pitchforks.

And those bosses are hoping a combination of drones and altman’s AI will keep them safe the next time. Meanwhile we’ve got Altman selling his AI to the military with essentially no restrictions telling us we just need to patiently wait for all the good things it’s going to do for the common man.

Just keep grinding and waiting, he can’t tell you what the benefit will be for you but he promises it will be amazing!


  > We seem to go through a cycle where we set up systems that provide non-violent ways of resolving issues, then people get annoyed with the outcomes
An excellent illustration of the blind spot

That's certainly the implied threat when people show up with AR-15's in the Idaho statehouse. Yes it's legal. But what is the point? This is ruby red Idaho.

I've always said when peaceniks start to carry weapons, it's time to worry. Alex Pretti didn't pull his gun, but still got shot. At what point will some escalation tactic end up in a gun fight between the local police and ICE?


Yes, the market will compress drastically. You'll have a few experts leveraging/debugging AI, or designing/architecting novel things, and there will be no need for "average" engineers anymore.

Most junior engineers today (70% ?) will need to switch fields.


What happens when the leveraging experts die?

Well nobody exactly knows, but I imagine it's the same thing that happened when everybody stopped learning assembly language...

- a few people still specialize in it

- a lot of people are helpless if the problem exists at that layer, and just ignore or workaround it because it's not cost-effective to fix

- maybe in 20 years AI will already have closed those gaps. If not there may be a big supply/demand incentive for experts which would create high salaries and cause more people to specialize in it.

(To be clear I'm not trying to argue this is good, these are just my predictions)


Very emotionally powerful to watch something play out, even if I'm already consciously aware of it. Would love a speed where I can watch the whole dataset play out in about 1 minute.

What are we seeing play out? It just looks like some areas are warm and some are cold?

I can't believe there are still so-called intellegent people coming out with this crap.

1985 sure. Maybe 2000

But now?


I'll give you 2 reasons.

a) published data tends to see corrections from sensors and methodology which take several years to work out the fine details. (This isn't an attack this is science) Which means always take yesterday's numbers with more scepticism than 2yr ago. (This is making no statement of any data you're looking at or any trend you claim to see)

b) a field dominated by modelling needs data to back it up, otherwise the conversation would be, "Why is the LHC failing to find strong theory which is absolutely there" vs "I wonder if the modelling is correct based on..." This is a certain level of maturity that certain sciences are only starting to reach after playing in the ballpark of "let's go model my idea and make a press release which will just so happen to help my funding".

Yes sea level temps are rising, absolute numbers are still difficult to come by though and last UN summary doc I read still put things at 5C global average over a century. (Yes still horrifically catastrophic for the wrong people, but I'm also not in charge)


I doubt it has anything to do with data-quality, I'd be surprised if even 10% of climate denialists have studied the numbers. Remember >20% of US citizens are still creationists, a lot of people aren't emotionally ready to believe scary things, and maybe they never will be.

I take it you have data against creationism?

Or that it is somehow less “scary”?


Indeed, there is quite a lot of data against (Biblical/young-earth) creationism.

Everything from "humans' chromosome 2 is a fusion of two other chromosomes, and we see those two other chromosomes still present in chimpanzees and gorillas and bonobos", which argues for common descent, to "when zircon crystals form, they accept radioactive uranium but violently reject the lead that it decays to, and modern zircon crystals have lead-uranium ratios indicating that they formed billions of years ago", arguing for an old age of the universe. And many, many, many, many other pieces of evidence.


Chromosomal similarity argues for solid engineering principles just as much as it does common decent. Do you have any data to suggest that the almighty did not take a working chromosome 2 (made in their own image, perhaps), and reuse it in these other animals you reference?

Nothing about the human body argues for solid engineering principles.

Presumably you have some data to back that up? A product designed by the worlds top biological engineers that is more effective?

> Do you have any data to suggest that the almighty did not take a working chromosome 2 (made in their own image, perhaps), and reuse it in these other animals you reference?

Why would an almighty god leave markers in our Chromosome 2 that look like they are from chromosomes 2a/2b in other apes?

It's not just that there's a huge genetic similarities between the chromosomes. Which there are! Chromosome 2 also has an extra, deactivated centromere, which was used in the copying of the previous chromosome 2b, before the fusion. And, remember that chromosomes typically have telomeres at their ends to keep them from fraying apart. In a fusion event you'd expect some telomeres from the end of the ingredient chromosomes to end up in the middle of the resulting fused chromosome. And this is what we see.

Of course God could have created our chromosome in such a way that it looks very much like the fusion of 2 chromosomes from our shared ancestor with chimpanzees, down to the addition of an extra centromere and telomere region. But why would he?

But, I've also got to say, man, please don't be surprised if I don't respond much. I have no offense intended towards you, but from my perspective, arguing with a young earth creationist is about as productive as arguing with a flat earther. There are about 6 orders of magnitude of difference in age between an Earth that's about 6k years old and 4 billion, and those differences should be readily apparent all over the natural world. And they are! We see an incredible wealth of evidence for an old universe.

But... well, horse and water and all that. I can't expect to change your mind any more than I'd expect to change a flat-earther's mind.


I get that you don’t understand why a creator might do things they way they might have done. I don’t either. But surely you admit your own lack of understanding is not a scientific proof point?

If I said “I don’t understand why the big bang happened”, would that be evidence it didn’t?


Are you familiar with the idea of Last Thursdayism?

Certainly.

Which is why I contest anyone who makes claims like “smart people like me know that Science says the earth is N years old and everyone who disagrees is too dumb to understand these indisputable facts”.



There's a buttload of data against creationism. There are living trees older than the typical date given for the creation.

Oldest tree I see is reported as 5,000 years. Common creation date is held to be roughly 6000 years ago.

Not that I think the age estimates folks have has much basis is reality. But this is a particularly empty nothing-burger.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_trees

I’m sure you’ll say the older ones are wrong, of course.


https://www.conservation.org/news/methuselah-still-the-world...

Why do these disagree? Are the metrics perhaps under some debate, even amongst the Scientists?


That one isn’t counting clonal trees.

Ok. Not really sure what you’re getting at here tbh. But I assume you have read some paper that said that this tree had some isotope of some material, and you’ve taken that to mean the earth is older than 6,000 years?

There are trees much older than 6,000 years, I provided a link with details, and you don’t know what I’m getting at?

No, you have data that you’ve interpreted to mean that the trees are older than 6,000 years old. What is that data, and why have you interpreted it in that way?

The cool thing about Wikipedia is that the bottom of every article has a bunch of references.

So you don’t know. But you have faith someone did their homework.

Me too!


It's not faith when a bunch of different people all did the homework and came up with the same answers. Especially when they're all part of a system that rewards new discoveries, and they did the homework in very different ways.

There are mountains (both literal and metaphorical) of evidence for an old earth. The only evidence for a young earth is a book which contradicts its own creation story in the first two chapters.


And believing the world ending as in "the day after tomorrow" was the "still mask wearing" of the 2010s. Fear.

Jesus Christ, dude. That was a disaster movie by the same guy that brought us Independence Day and 2012, based on a book by a radio host best known for possibly facilitating the Heaven's Gate mass suicide by feeding rumors a UFO was following the Hale-Bopp comet, and a writer who has peddled personal tales of alien abductions for 40 years. Not exactly a reliable central tendency measure of what real people feared.

This has to be one of the stupidest false equivalences I've ever seen.


You. Wow.... You clearly aren't paying attention to how that movie was widely mid portrayed and presented within the education sector as fact

Feels like a really weak bad-faith take.

I guess you're trying to draw a false-equivalency between taking a problem extra seriously and denying/perpetuating it? However taking a problem too seriously doesn't harm people, if you want to wear a mask out of an abundance of caution you won't kill anybody else.

Also nobody believed the world was going to end in two days, that feels like a disingenuous talking point. If somebody literally believed the world would end in < 10 years they'd likely quit their job, spend all their savings, etc.

If your point is that you've met ~15 individuals in your life who were obnoxious/self-righteous/unlikeable about their attempts to make the world better -- congrats every movement has that. But it can't distract from the fact that one thing is true and the other is false, and anybody who tries to focus more on the stereotypes of the individuals in a movement than whether it's true or not is only creating noise.


No I'm talking about proper healthy science not blind trust. Please don't confuse discussion with argument it's disingenuous and best I can say is look inwards.

No, most of these people consciously or otherwise, just want/need to be contrarians. Look at flat Earthers. There is no way any sane person would say the earth is flat.

Please don't bring up another thing started by idiot scientists for a laugh to laugh at stupid people. You have no idea what it's like dealing with the "just open your eyes" and "what else are they hiding" tier of pseudo-intellectualism enabled by nu-media.

There are reasons to be sceptical which are set in reason and it's worth not throwing that out with the bath water. Even if the bath water is full of low iq bitchute comments...


I think you may be reading more into my comment than I wrote. I was only talking about what we are seeing in the Show HN. I have no baseline to compare it to so all I can see is a map of the oceans with some areas red and some areas blue.

And over time the volume of blue reduces and changes to red, and even deeper red appears

It's generally accepted that red = hot and blue = cold, and there is a scale showing that anyway

It's quite obvious based solely on the site that this shows surface sea temperatures over 40 years, and it's far higher now than it was 40 years ago

But sure, just go on the "I'm only asking questions" crap.


If you tap the images on mobile, there is an animation.

"You're absolutely right!"

I think for a while the test was passed. Then we learned the hallmark characteristics of these models, and now most of us can easily differentiate. That said -- these models are programmed specifically to be more helpful, more articulate, more friendly, and more verbose than people, so that may not be a fair expectation. Even so, I think if you took all of that away, you'd be able to differentiate the two, it just might take longer.


Right. I think the modern LLMs are quite good at mimicking human words, but we were initially taken in like we were in the 1960s by ELIZA. It’s a (increasingly sophisticated) magic trick, but it’s just a trick.

I agree. Also put some about global warming on there, or pollution, or efficacy of the covid vaccine.

Well, fun little experiment, at the very least.

I'll also pick apart this question "The mainstream media gave Trump an 8% chance to win the 2016 election. Him winning clearly shows they were biased and wrong."

Well, defined biased. Pollsters weren't using perfectly random models, so there was systemic bias (as there always is when you can't have a truly representative sample). There was also a sense of group-think that "This couldn't possibly happen, this is beneath our country" from a lot of individuals in and out of media.

That said it doesn't prove a deliberate attempt to deceive, but it certainly was a wake-up call to many in the media.

Point here being -- almost all emotional discourse is taking very nuanced situations and trying to cram them into semi-arbitrary judgmental terms like "fair" and "legitimate" and "biased."


I don't know, seems needlessly speculative. I'll wait until there's more evidence from a better source.

knowing Trump he would already have boasted about that on truth.social

Since the operation appears to have failed, obviously he cannot boast about it.

The normal reaction to the failure of reaching a military objective is to deny that you have ever attempted to reach it.


Cheeto Benito is threatening to jail reporters now.

Soooo much winning.


Well, he's threatening to jail reporters for reporting that an airman was down inside Iran, claiming that Iran didn't know until the US media reported it. He's not currently threatening reporters for claiming that the US was going after the HEU.

Didn’t he mention trying to do it?

Just seems like baseless speculation, another attempt to rationalize what occam's razor can much more easily explain with long-established egomania or senility.

> another attempt to rationalize what occam's razor

Occam's razor... senility? I'm tired of fixing this.

> can much more easily explain with [something]

An "easy explanation" is very different from a truthful and proper one. I mean, different as night and day.


Or “hey stop talking about certain files and look over here instead!”

Mmh yes and no. There are two arms in this hypothesis and you can summarize the second one (the main one) as basically wanting to piss off / punish the Europeans. This is perfectly on point and fits the character.

Occam's razor might well describe actions of a cold calculating leader. But of Trump..?


I think despite the presentation this has some good ideas in it:

1. Formally calling out a concept for judgment-based skills that cannot be easily taught. I think everybody understands this, but having a word for this would be useful.

2. Opening up the conversation on the topic of which types of skills can/should be codified and how.

That said, everything else in the article is suss. "Dimensionality" is largely a distraction to try to sound smart, most of the claims in the article are unwarranted (e.g. processes & checklists can be great, even for disciplines with true experts like airline pilots).

For example saying that skill learning cannot be accelerated is just patently false in many domains -- take something like learning chess. If you have a coach and other tools you'll learn a LOT faster. But certainly I've worked places that wished they could automate away reliance on experts because it gives organization power to a few non-management individuals.


ELI 5

You teach the machine by asking it to solve some problems, and then whatever answer it gives you say "That's exactly right. Now we train on those answers YOU just gave me" (even if they are wrong) and repeat. Somehow THAT works over time.


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