Although that joke is funny, and this article is a little odd, personally I think everyone is taking away the wrong message.
Personal life absolutely could benefit from management and intelligence layers. For banking, instead of logging into each bank, I can use mint/personal capital. But when it comes to so much of the rest of life nothing plays nicely.
It would be awesome to have a shopping, construction, restaurant, recipe, health care aggregation for making decisions and projects. My family calendar should integrate right into "we need to pick a flooring contractor by xx" and when one of marks the one we want in on the platform, that info should trickle up into the management interface. If both of us mark ourselves as in the mood for Mexican, it can filter results down to restaurants we marked or might be relevant and show them to both of us. Comparing reviews between yelp, foursquare, facebook and google is agonizingly manual. Why cant this be as simple as metacritic? Right now collaborating is a painful mix of handing phones back and forth or sending links and screenshots. It's too real time. The same goes for shopping, comparison shopping together is just as disorganized as any collaborative task. Its very hard to break down the task into discrete components that can happen simultaneously. First you pick what you want, then you price shop, rinse repeat. Even simple stuff, like while planning an event, knowing who called an uber and getting an alert.
And then there is the educational aspect. Publishing and sharing a family budget, spending, net cash flow etc would absolutely benefit kids. They could see and learn how expensive things are, see what spending categories the trinkets they want chip into, where the family can reduce spending elsewhere, and what costs are fixed.
F, why not gamify chores. If you give out allowance for chores, why not have a list of available chores, and let the market handle itself? One kid wants to do all the work, they reap all the reward.
Maybe its less of a Slack/Trellofication and more what I want is a PowerBI/Tableau.
I know things like buildshop.com and getcatalant.com sort of fill that hybrid project management and reviews category, for their own verticals.
A collaborative family calendar, with goal planning, and brainstorming space isnt a bad idea. Hey you want to save for a purchase, heres a budgeting tool. Hey you need a ride to a thing at a certain time, this person is available. Building consensus over whats for dinner can be something people contribute to when they have time over the day, instead of requiring everyone to be on the same page at the same time? Oh we picked a recipe that the inventory knows we are out of an ingredient, add picking that ingredient up to the task list and assign it, before people start driving home for the day.
This comment became a very unfocused vomit of a rant quickly, and I dont feel like circling back around to edit it. Sorry.
You know, when you put it that way, that does raise a lot of good points. There are legitimate non-obvious problems in this area ("family resource management" might be a catchy name here) and not a lot of solutions. And the solutions that exist are so heavyweight and industry-tailored that when you hear about parents using JIRA, it just sounds absurd (and rightly so).
Probably the reason there aren't many such solutions is that it's not a sexy or obviously lucrative field, and that it's probably pretty hard to come up with a well-designed product that handles all the complexity of a family. I mean, come to think of it, most software startup founders are young and have few commitments (e.g. children); I can't imagine them being able to empathize well enough until they're at a later stage of their lives. But, perhaps someone's working on this as a very extensive side project.
> As per our earlier conversation, we have decided that the children will be enrolled in tennis camp over the summer. Please let me know if you want to follow up on this.
I cannot even imagine what it would be like being a teenager under that. Your two choices are either do everything you can to win your parents' approval, or run away at 16.
It's one thing for education to be hyperfocused on results and training for the workforce, it's another for the home to restructure in that direction too.
Extremely regimented people may excel in extremely regimented environments, but frankly they are often deeply uninteresting people to socialise with. (Also, any workplace I've been in hasn't actually been that regimented, and was better off for it. The less flexible people were good but often struggled with being more fluid when required.)
I much prefer the other extreme. Those junkyard diy playground kids and that whole movement away from hyperstructured and linear play. Not that you can't trello a trip to one of those in to the schedule, but I'm guessing that the crossover between the slackified group and the junkyard group isn't huge.
Something I’m trying to get better at is to be more intentional about everything e.g. I think I’ve come to the realization that I’ve wasted a lot of time and spent time doing things I shouldn’t be doing because I allowed myself to “drift” in ways that don’t help me at all.
I do not have a family or kids, but anything that helps families be more intentional with how they spend time with each other is a really good thing. I know growing up that was far from the case for me.
> Something I’m trying to get better at is to be more intentional about everything e.g. I think I’ve come to the realization that I’ve wasted a lot of time and spent time doing things I shouldn’t be doing because I allowed myself to “drift” in ways that don’t help me at all.
I disagree. Some things just need to be tried out to see if it enriches your life.
Yes there will be regrets but there is always a risk for potential worthwhile pursuits.
Meditation isn't religious. Zen-style mindfulness is proven to be beneficial for stress, anxiety, and even some indicators of physical health. It just so happens that most of the best meditation instructors are Buddhist (to some degree).
>"We think of Trello as a tool you can use across work and life," says Stella Garber, [Trello's] head of marketing. [...] (Slack declined to share any information about how people use its software, and Atlassian, which owns Jira, did not respond to a similar request.)
This is interesting... The author may have overlooked the fact that Atlassian also owns Trello.
Every family in the world uses IM, and Slack isn't very different from any of the hundred other options out there for group messaging. So not too surprising that families are using it.
Similarly all the other software mentioned can be used for simple calendaring, TODO lists, reminders etc., all of which most people here undoubtedly use in some form to manage their life. It's just the association of these brands with "work" that has people going WTF.
That’s not realistic, messengers are much more ubiquitous than any other kind of software and are mostly used in a family/friends network. We had our local digital festival last week an we had school classes teaching seniors WhatsApp.
I've no idea what the GP commentor is talking about. I don't know of many families that use messaging apps. Yeah, texts, a bit, but most of the families around me don't do this. Heck, most of the kids don't have cell phones until they get into HS, and event then, the phones are banned during the school day.
What does it say about us as a society in which a pre-high school child needs to use a productivity suite to manage their lives? The answer here is not to provide more software to allow 11 year olds to eek out a few extra percentage points of productivity. The answer is to expect less of 11 year olds.
My kids' school has just been taken over (in the UK) by an academy group whose other local schools were telling 8 and 9 year old that they needed to know what career they were going to have so they could study the right subjects...
I'm 47 and I still don't really know what I want to do with my life. How the hell does an 8 year old?
I'd imagine the most common careers they want were firefighter, youtube streamer and race car drivers.
But seriously, how many kids have more than a surface level knowledge of what various occupations do, or even what occupations were available? How many have practical dreams like becoming an accountant? There were adults in my programming class that became disillusioned with the career path when they discovered it wasn't all about manipulating green scrolling text like the matrix. My 13 year old nephew went through this stuff but has had a change of heart after discovering Architecture was a math intensive profession.
They simply don't have the depth and breadth of understanding to be specializing at that age.
Is it a bad thing to get kids thinking about this? I mean, this is what they have to do when they select what subjects they want to do. This has happened all over the world for at least 30 years.
Kids at 9 are absolutely not able to choose what career they will actually want to do when they are old enough to work. They just don't know enough of the world to make this choice.
What they have to do at this age is discover as much of the world as possible in order to be able to make a better choice later on.
It always puzzled me that the same kids who are expected to think that far and be able to take "career" decisions are not allowed to watch any movie they want or drink alcohol. There's a bit of a dissonance there.
There are too many invisible jobs in the world for even a high schooler to accurately decide. I was way to far into software when I discovered I would have rather have become a food packaging science. I didn't take anymore than the bare minimum chemistry and biology courses in high school instead opting for programming self study. The only people I know ended up going to a few select programs they discovered via proximity to the schools that had them.
That is only one job in one niche industry. I'm trying to figure out how to expose my children to a volume of careers that extend beyond programmer, fireman, astronaut, etc.
Thinking about careers is fine, but if they're choosing subjects then they're potentially making some life long decisions and shutting themselves out of many career paths early.
I think it’s also interesting how a lot of very successful people in the field of engineering identified that they want to be engineers when they were very young and just started pursuing it.
If you mean software engineering, those people must be completely unlike myself. I started spending serious time programming at 13. But it took me well into my first job 10 years later until I thought, "well, shit, I guess that's how I'm gonna be making money". My choice of software as a study field when I was 18 was literally made like this: "oh, I can get degree by doing what I like, and hopefully pick up some more interesting knowledge along the way, sign me in!".
For some reason (probably upbringing and local environment), some people start to think about their careers very late. And I don't feel like thinking about it much earlier is productive. When you're 15, or 9, you don't really have enough information (or arguably sapience), to make a reasoned choice.
I feel the "compound interest everything" thinking is infecting our lives too much. I've heard arguments that Soviet times were bad because it was government that told you where to go to work, and free societies let people choose for themselves. But if kids are forced to think about their career at 9 and make decisions that become binding because of sunk costs, that's essentially market choosing for you. You're not free either way, it's just a different optimization system optimizing you.
Even then, AFAIK you weren't "told" what kind of career you were getting, but at times people would get assignments they could take for a job in their field?
Thinking about it, sure. Making meaningful decisions about it, absolutely not. Most people can barely manage to successfully decide what career they want at 18, much less 8.
My cousin is raising 2 kids in a major urban center. Discussions of what pre-K they needed to prepare for starts around the time they are able to independently walk. Social calanders are decided weeks in advance. Play dates are heavily documented on social media and 'bucket-lists' of rites of passage such as photo session at a historical landmark, baseball stadium, etc are turned into holiday cards. My cousin might be an outlier, she is an incredibly driven business woman who juggles a full time lucrative career with family life, but I can't imagine her lifestyle is worth the stress. As far as I can remember the kids have always been dressed in coordinated outfits, hats, vests, capes, etc.
She is definitely a loving mother and cares the worlds for her kids, but I feel incredibly uneasy if this becomes the new norm for kids to succeed in our society.
This is not objective but my brother in law's extended family lives in the suburbs far from a much smaller metro area, spend their time primarily outdoors lightly supervised, and to me are far more confident, articulate, and fun kids.
This is more a “certain type of rich people” thing than an “urban center” thing, I think. Picture-perfect boring sheltered childhoods are common in the suburbs, and there are plenty of city kids who control their own time.
I don't think that's a very subjective observation. It's really challenging to let urban kids be unsupervised (and, in some places - it's borderline illegal)
I don't disagree, but I also think that 11 year olds are incredibly capable beings and it's exciting to see tooling emerge that helps us stop thinking of everyone under the age of 18 as being incapable of living a full and rich life.
The context is obvious: Parents get less house time, do more house-irrelevant things during said time, and most importantly - the outside is more hostile, so more and more kids life is organized and initiated by parents.
They are. It's just that outrage media is 100x more powerful and present and as a result every small crime and mishap is shouted from the rooftops 24x7.
Yup. Many of us had chores magnetically attached to the family fridge with a red and black dry-erase marker conveniently nearby. Sure, we didn't have 'sprints' or weekly meetings like the families in this article, but if I missed my chores my parents were absolutely going to take some time to talk to me and ask what was going on.
I actually like the idea of weekly “sprints” for a family. That’s a pretty cool way to set goals and actually work towards achieving them as a family. Life and personal development is iterative, the “sprint” concept fits into that perfectly.
I'm imagining the classic scene from movies where a teen boy comes to ask the dad if he can take the daughter to prom, except he just opens a pull request
>Julie Berkun Fajgenbaum, a mom of three children ages 8 to 12, uses Google Calendar to manage her children’s time and Jira to keep track of home projects.
Firstly a calendar can be very useful for knowing which activities kids are doing, what playdates etc. Schools sometimes throw one off things into the mix. Most parents would use a regular calendar anyway.
For JIRA - well that seems a bit heavy handed when trello would do but really it's a good idea. It's a todo list... so is the default todo app on your phone bad? Pen & paper bad? It's the same sort of thing.
It sounds reasonable if you value chores and compliance above everything. Why should children be "productive"? Is there any time left for play, discovery, spontaneity?
As to your final paragraph, I'm wondering what effects using "productivity" tools like Trello have on a child's memory development. Do they remember chores better or worse independently? Do you remember typing a ticket as well as writing it down physically?
Like, for a lot of people, if you need to use these tools for your family at all, it's a big sign that you need to do less things. If tracking your family and it's velocity is something that you feel that you need to do, then you need to re-evaluate what it is that you are doing with your family as such activity is glaringly unhealthy. Not saying that I am part of this (tools are ethics-neutral to me, use whatever works, kids are stressful enough), but to a lot of people, family is not something to 'get done' or 'crush it'.
Yes I agree, I was thinking more in line with people like me, who can’t hold everything in their head, so these tools are sophisticated todo lists.
But if I find my self asking my kid “so... what went well?” or “I’m not sure that’s a 5 pointer” before they are working age I’ll book an appointment with a professional pronto!
"american home"?
even in terms of content of article, it is clear this is confined to a very small section of society. even that is purely based on anecdotal claims.
almost no valid evidence, but broad nation wide conclusion.
If you are looking for a "standard" American home you aren't going to find it. It is a large country, and there is a ton of diversity. People mentioned in the article are as American as anyone else.
I’ll go a step farther and point out that it’s troubling that we feel like we need these sorts of tools to survive at home today. It seems to be a symptom of an ever increasing level of complexity in every facet of modern life.
People, please, think about what you want your children to become. Do you want easily employed drones that just as easily can get outsourced or replaced by AI, or do you want independent and creative thinkers? Creativity needs space and time. Extend both increasingly, with age. It's sad to me that American life requires you to manage their time - elsewhere they can just independently go to school, first on foot then on bycicle. Stop living in these hellscapes that makes that impossible, I consider it essential.
Kids need boredom - the best ideas are born of being bored and needing to figure out what to do for yourself.
We did this with our kid, no smart devices in the back seat. We didn't make sure she had something to do at all times. Most of her toys were (and still are) stuff that need some creativity and imagination (just wooden blocks, Legos etc.)
Now she can sit in the back seat for an hour, just staring out the window thinking about stuff. She seems to be able to play with just about anything, any object can be a source of play and games for her.
I think parents want their children to be able to have a career that will allow their children to have the economic resources to navigate modern society (pay for university, home, provide for family).
Creativity and independence in thinking comes second.
> Just give em space and see what happens, don't create a damn curriculum from school out to sleep.
It's typically parents who nominally want their children to become " independent and creative thinkers" who setup a curriculum with music school, dance lessons and foreign language courses.
I don't use it any more, I liked but I was using it as a CRM in a role I'm no longer in. At the time there was a consultant running an airtable youtube channel that I found helpful. He has videos titled things like "planning a party using airtable" and also has personal use case examples in some videos with names that don't make that clear eg. the "Using Views in Airtable to Improve Workflows" video is about a system he and his partner use to plan meals and then make shopping lists for them. I recommend poking around his stuff for ideas.
The "tiger mom" phenomenon was every bit as much in force, as far as I know, during my time in high school during the early to mid aughts.
Honestly, if you're going to be so overly organized (which some people are) this at least sounds like a better way to do it. Might as well have your calendar online and your messages in one place so everyone knows what's going on.
Well, it just seems a brand friendly way to say "Hey, this families use technology to track activities like we use to do with pen and paper".
And I personally use org-mode to track my kid's activities (and my own), but I believe a plain white board is better to track the shared goals and messages.
Biggest stand out in this article is the stats about declining free time for play - as has been said quite a few times on HN, humans need to be bored and to play in order to be creative. Stagnation awaits otherwise I fear.
I've thought about creating a family management platform before, but it seemed too weird and farfetched that people would actually use it for a long period of time and not chuck it out.
Simple translates to longevity (resilient to environment rot).
I think a family wiki strikes the right balance of simple and useful. I find in families we quickly specialise and when somebody is away, we struggle to do tasks that could have been captured in a few bullet points
Me and my mom were ahead of our time. Back in 2000 I used to message her on ICQ and ask if dinner was ready. And she'd say yes so I could come out of my teenage computer cave. :)
Trello pisses me off. Stacking some colored cards with notes. A four year old could come up with the idea. Yet acquired for $425M. The world is not fair.
> We put men on the moon before we put wheels on luggage.
This claim was so outlandish that I had to fact-check it. Wikipedia says:
> Luggage carriers [...] date at least to the 1930s [...] However, the wheels were external to the suitcases. [...] The first commercially successful rolling suitcase was invented in 1970.
It appears you're technically correct. The best kind of correct.
It's even whackier that it took them another 17 years to figure out the optimal design - the first two-wheeler with an extending handle didn't hit the market until 1987.
