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Author here. Happy to answer any questions or hear any feedback about this post.

Discussion from my first annual update last year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19054150



Hey, Michael!

I was following you story since your first post two years ago. I just want to say that to succeed you need to sell something. As a software developers we can scale something (move from 1 to N, in terms of tech), but you need to find initial niche (from 0 to 1). I think that main success (as a business person) that you have is an audience reach that you had (almost every developer feels that things that you are described in your initial post). So why don't you try to play with your audience? Man, 2 years ago, when you posted you story of quitting, I was sitting in Yandex office at Moscow, and a lot of colleagues were talking about you and you story. Isn't that cool? I am not a real entrepreneur, but I really advice you to use your strengths (audience reach, mastery in writing, etc) along with you software development skills to find point of growth. Thanks for sharing and good luck!


Thanks for reading!

>Man, 2 years ago, when you posted you story of quitting, I was sitting in Yandex office at Moscow, and a lot of colleagues were talking about you and you story. Isn't that cool?

Definitely, that is really cool. That was one of the most fun parts of publishing that piece. I didn't expect it to be that interesting to people outside my circle of tech friends, but it was surprising to hear that it resonated with people in different countries and different industries.

>I really advice you to use your strengths (audience reach, mastery in writing, etc) along with you software development skills to find point of growth.

I've thought about this, especially when I first quit, but I could never think of a way to make money from my writing in a way that felt exciting to me. I think I just get more excited about building a product or service, but I do keep searching for ways to use my writing to complement my non-writing businesses.


Just wanted to say I've really enjoyed following your progress. It's awesome to see the changes over time and I really hope I can follow in your footsteps someday. I used to check your blog weekly hoping for a blog update to help pass the long afternoons that dragged on forever at work.

By chance was it you that released the Rooster app? Apologies if it wasn't but I remember reading a blog post about an app that would text you in the morning or something and I could have sworn it was your blog. The post had a link to the app that I clicked on but little did I know that the app had been shut down and the URL was scooped up by a less appropriate website. I was greeted with a very NSFW web page while at work haha.


Pretty cool how you're able to come out in the open with all this stuff like this!

Having checked Zestful's page out, I got a suggestion for you. How about building a client lib ready for developers for at least a few mainstream languages? This should be rather easily achievable if you type in the Swagger specs to your API. That allows you to generate (Swagger codegen) those libs with possibly just minimal tweaking left on your part.


Thanks for reading!

>Having checked Zestful's page out, I got a suggestion for you. How about building a client lib ready for developers for at least a few mainstream languages? This should be rather easily achievable if you type in the Swagger specs to your API. That allows you to generate (Swagger codegen) those libs with possibly just minimal tweaking left on your part.

This is something I've thought about. I'd really like to have a PyPI package that you can just pip install and it parses ingredients using the free tier, then prompts you to enter a license key when you reach the limit.

Zestful's hard for me because I could spend a year pursuing all of the ideas I have for it, but historically, feature ideas I come up with myself haven't attracted new customers. I set a rule for myself to not implement any new features until a paying customer requests it, and customers haven't mentioned wanting language-specific libraries. I talked a bit more about that in my August 2019 retrospective:

https://mtlynch.io/retrospectives/2019/08/#zestful-and-resis...

I haven't looked into Swagger much, so I'll check that out and see if I can create language bindings more easily than I thought.


As someone who has done quite a bit of shopping for various services, having a language-specific library ready to go is a major factor. I doubt that someone already paying you would still need one, though, so it should probably be considered a strictly "customer acquisition" feature.

I understand your rule, but I don't think it should be that strict.


It could also be his competitive advantage over others.

I mean wasn't Stripe known to become so successful exactly because of easiness of use, in other words a good user experience for developers with simple ready-made libraries. Making a new payment gateway is hardly innovative by itself after all.


Right, I don't know if it makes sense business-wise or not. Probably not if no one is voicing out requests about it.

However, writing Swagger API specs for your future projects while you develop them might make you more productive, plus you do get that code generation for free on top of it. Depending on what language you work with, it may come essentially for free or with non-marginal effort.


Thanks for sharing. I really enjoy your writing style by the way.

I'm interested how the "raising prices to avoid feature requests from people who wouldn't become a customer anyway" worked.

I have built something for a friend of mine who is now my first customer. The tool solves a niche problem some of his peers struggle with too.

When building it, I tried to make the data models as generic as possible so that other businesses would be able to use the tool with a minimum of effort from my side.

Of course, I still foresee a lot of feature requests. How do/did you know zestful had the right basic functionality and feature-set for it to be useful to customers?

In other words, how did you separate the must-have features from the nice-to-have ones (knowing that a must-have for a particular person could very well be a nice-to-have for the market)?


Thanks for reading and for the kind words.

To preface, I'm definitely not an expert at this problem, because Zestful still only has a handful of customers, but I can tell you what was helpful for me.

It is really hard to separate the nice-to-haves from the must-haves. Some customers will present their nice-to-haves as if they're must haves because they suspect that if they don't make it sound like a condition of buying, you'll never implement it, but they might buy anyway. Or they'd never buy regardless.

One of the features that I think I correctly took on this year was linking Zestful's ingredients to USDA entries. A lot of customers either explicitly asked for that feature or for something similar. Later large customers cited that feature as something that made them choose Zestful, so I'm glad I added it. I think the signal there was the high proportion of customers asking for it.

I think it is powerful to offer to implement that feature based on pre-payment of X months of service. It might drive away customers who don't feel comfortable letting you hold their money, but if your time continues getting burned by customers who request features and don't follow through, it's a good technique to keep in your back pocket.


Great read with the logical analysis and openness lends well to success and navigating this adventure.

Doing your own products is definitely the way to go for sustainability. Just one big one or a few have to work. Focusing on products is nice as you don't have to work for clients but instead customers more which can be more rewarding and freeing. Having only a big client or a few end up dictating direction and freedom to pursue ideas.

Overall the experience on the business, marketing and promotions side is very helpful in all aspects of life.

I have been freelancing/contracting/product developing for 8 years full-time off of trying it for a year or two and have had to take clients/contracts here and there. This helps while you are building up products where needed. Though it isn't all bad doing contracts it can take time away but also help you, sometimes you learn about new problems and thus solutions that can become products when dealing with clients and unique industry problems. These problems can be hard to find if you aren't going through some of the pain points related to them.

I will say most products do take multiple years to make it so fail quickly and press the gas on momentum and projects that you lean towards or are more interesting. Pay attention mostly to external product user experience and presentation at this stage.

Good luck on your adventure and may your travels be rewarding personally and financially fruitful.


Just starting to have income near the two year mark is what I assume would happen.

Assuming you still need to make income at some point, how long would you go before you decided it was time to go work for someone else? Three years? Four years?

BTW: I'm more interested in how you self-reflect on your entrepreneurial abilities. How do you make decisions around that? How do you prevent yourself from falling in love with your work if it's not going to make money?


Thanks for reading!

>Just starting to have income near the two year mark is what I assume would happen.

Yeah, I'm encouraged by Cory Zue's progress. He's a couple years ahead of me, but I'm sort of matching up with his first few years of income:

http://www.coryzue.com/writing/master-plan/#the-master-plan

>Assuming you still need to make income at some point, how long would you go before you decided it was time to go work for someone else? Three years? Four years?

Good question. At this point, I feel like I could do this indefinitely, even if I roughly broke even. The things that would change are if my life circumstances change and I need the money (e.g., having children, a catastrophic health event for me or someone in my family).

>BTW: I'm more interested in how you self-reflect on your entrepreneurial abilities. How do you make decisions around that? How do you prevent yourself from falling in love with your work if it's not going to make money?

I've found it helpful to set goals and hold myself accountable for achieving them. I do enjoy writing software for software's sake, but a lot of my satisfaction in being a solo dev comes from improving my skills on the business side. Given that, I'm probably not in danger of reaching complacency - failing to earn money would mean I'm not growing in the way that I want, so I wouldn't be satisfied with that.


How's a burger with a bun keto friendly lol. There's a big picture of a bunned burger and no mention of "by the way this specifically refers to just the patty itself."


The article addresses how to handle buns, but that part of the article isn't in the screenshot:

>Most people eat Beyond Burgers with ketchup and a bun, but those are hard to fit into a keto diet, so you might have to get creative. Consider crumbling your Beyond Burger over a salad with fresh tomatoes and a keto-friendly salad dressing. Or try out one of these delicious keto burger recipes.

https://isitketo.org/beyond-burger


Are you targeting to gain revenue from your SaaS and blog alone?

Have you considered consulting or remote dev for 2-3 months a year? - that could easily enable you to hit your targets.


Interesting that as an ex-googler you dont use adwords ?


So 2 years and you earned $18,000? Seems rather bad, you think you can exponentially grow that in the next year or two?


The totals on the first chart are wrong. In 2 years he lost $23k. (Or you could say the "totals" are correct, but calling it "net profit" is wrong.)


Yeah, either way, financially that would never make sense to me.


OP has significant savings. They are their own VC. Think of it in terms of a startup, most of which don't turn profits for years.


Most companies, especially small ones, lose money in their first 2-3 years...


You know, I think there might be something to any publicity is good publicity in this case. It's controversial to do something 99.999 percent of the workforce would not. So, by posting even when there is no great success, he is growing his exposure and making it easier in the future.




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