Makes you really wonder if this was an isolated incident or if there are other cases of these tactics that were successful in silencing the victims.
Makes me think of the series DEVS where a big Silicon Valley company also uses their security force in a similar manner, I never thought that would be the part that was the most accurate.
It's scary that this happened at Ebay, I dread to think what kind of shit a company with the funds of google or facebook could pull off.
It wasn't exactly successful in silencing the victim but one of the car companies did this to Ralph Nader when he was investigating their products for Unsafe at Any Speed.
I'm honestly surprised that any company would still do this sort of thing to critics after how that turned out back in the 60s. When the harassment of Nader was discovered, it put extra momentum behind the push for car safety legislation that cost the car companies lots of money and saved countless lives. Nader was then able to get lots of additional consumer safety laws passed in the 70s. Maybe they just think themselves so powerful after decades of successfully buying politicians that they think they can now get away with this kind of thing.
It is a different time. CEO malfeasance was not tolerated nearly as much: when it was clear that he would be caught for paying a bribe to the Honduran President, the Chiquita CEO jumped to his death from his office in a Manhattan skyscraper.
Nowadays, what drove Eli Black to his suicide is considered “business as usual” and is no bar to someone being CEO, staying out of jail, or even elected President.
There's not a single aspect of social opinion that can't be turned into a heated flame war, and stoked for what it's worth. Be that external powers getting this country to consume itself, or internal ones avoiding the formation of a coherent mob.
"I'm honestly surprised that any company would still do this sort of thing to critics after how that turned out back in the 60s."
That's famous. GM had a private detective follow Nader around. He followed Nader into the US Capitol. (Anyone could walk in back then.) Private detective discovered by Capitol cops. CEO of General Motors subpoenaed to appear before Senate committee on national TV.
It's not uncommon for corporations to hire PI and target certain clients/customers/competitors ,for petty reasons or even to dig dirt on them, and it might count as stalking yes. One day when I'm retired I might tell my story.
But this case is just one step above all that. Who knows what these employees and executives did to others before, I hardly believe this was an isolated case at eBay.
Please familiarize yourself with the site guidelines. You've broken several in this thread, beginning with the shallow dismissal "nobody cares about your story."
> Why is everyone more concerned with scolding someone than partaking in discussion?
The purpose of the guidelines is to establish an atmosphere of curious, genuine conversation. If somebody demonstrates dinterest in curious, genuine conversation through repeated violations of those guidelines, it comes time to inform (not scold) them of why their comments are getting flagged to death.
I'm not interested in fighting with you about this topic. But I am interested in maintaining the vibe that you're currently harshing. You have a new account, so I have some hope that you might come around, rethink your approach to online conversation, and become a productive member of our community. If you're feeling anger or frustration, please reflect on how you might better engage with the community here -- if the answer you arrive at is that we're a bunch of mean doodie-heads, then that's fine, you shouldn't associate with mean doodie-heads.
PIs are stalkers for hire. dubdigidob is being blunt, but I think he's right. I don't want rapists chiming in to offer their perspective on stories about rape; nor do I welcome PIs chiming in with their opinions on stories about corporations using PIs to stalk and harass people.
I have a family member who just used a PI to get child support from someone hiding income illegally.
PIs are used to catch cheating spouses, insider trading, theft and corporate espionage.
That doesn't mean PIs or given practices are immune to criticism. However, blunt statements such as "PIs are stalkers for hire" are so sloppy as to be factually incorrect and useless, and comparing them to rapists belays naiveity and an agenda.
A stalker for hire who occasionally stalks somebody who's also a scumbag, if the money is right? Give me a break. Such lame defenses of the profession only serve to further damn it.
> comparing them to rapists belays naiveity and an agenda.
An agenda huh? I guess you mean it's personal to me? Well you're right; a former employer sicced such goons on me and one of them got nasty. That's my "agenda" pal; being a victim of this profession.
Did (or could) you blog somewhere about any details, how these things happened and how you dealt with these tricks, threats and accusations? I reckon it would be very helpful for others in the industry to learn from your experience and at the very least get an understanding of how these things occur, how the other party operates and how you can deal with such situations in an appropriate and self-preserving manner (we often come up short in this important area, as we focus on the technical side of things).
Thanks (also for all the hard work that you do!)
> I dread to think what kind of shit a company with the funds of google or facebook could pull off
Me too. Sometimes I see these ideas in science fiction. I remember one black mirror episode where a tech company knows more about a suspect than the police. It's really unnerving watching them casually reveal all sorts of information, even the authorities seemed surprised.
Even worse is thinking about the resources governments have and the numberless ways they can abuse these powers.
Edward Snowden will die in exile while the NSA, CIA and others spy on US citizens. This will never change. No one in the ruling class is going to change it. You're a subject in a country ruled by people who aren't like you. Things do not change.
And if you try to change things, they will know. You will be labeled a terrorist, stripped of any rights you think you have and placed inside some hell hole nobody knows about so that you can be tortured until you break.
Edit: ... Holy shit. I think I just described 1984 without realizing it.
There's a heck of a lot more ways the government can make your life miserable before they escalate to force and a great many more of those ways are legally defensible in court.
Imagine if the cops had been menacingly tailing these people for an equally BS reason, what would their recourse be?
Stop being obtuse. The behavior eBay engaged is covered under laws criminalizing harassment or stalking. Try holding the .gov to the same standards and see where it gets you. Even if there isn't a legal carve-out it will be a much more uphill legal battle and the other parts of the .gov you have to deal with along the way will try as hard as they can to avoid enforcement actions against whatever part of the .gov is abusing you.
darknet diaries has a few episodes with similar stories. Check this one out https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/97/ not about a company targeting people, but similar pathological behaviour
I’ve heard multiple early Facebook employees brag about stalking users, checking out who is looking at who’s pictures… having a really good laugh about it. I couldn’t believe it but it was absolutely happening at FB in the early days and it didn’t seem isolated at all. I don’t know if it’s still happening but stalking is core DNA for Facebook.
> Makes me think of the series DEVS where a big Silicon Valley company also uses their security force in a similar manner, I never thought that would be the part that was the most accurate.
This was my first thought when I read about the eBay accusations last year. That said, I've worked for a broad spectrum of Bay Area companies and I think pretty much everything environmental and atmospheric in DEVS was accurate. It was a better take on tech companies and their personalities than, say, "Silicon Valley," and watching it gave me a lot of uncomfortable deja vu. Highly recommended if you are in tech, ever watch TV, and haven't seen it.
> It's scary that this happened at Ebay, I dread to think what kind of shit a company with the funds of google or facebook could pull off.
Ebay is a ~$46 billion company. Yes, that pales in comparison to Google or FB. However, when it comes to going against a couple, any of those three have in essence infinite resources.
Quick true account story. I swear to the universe this happened as described below:
In the middle of the last decade, I moved from a town to which I had just moved, in order to get away from a stalker. I wound up moving into a celebrity's house: a multi-room unit. I listed a room for rent on craigslist, and was contacted by someone closely connected to this celebrity. That evening, I used FB DM to contact an old far away associate about an unrelated matter. The next day at a local coffee shop, a couple sat next to me and started loudly discussing both this potential rental share from the connected party, as well as the content of that private DM.
This was extremely unsettling. If you've never experienced this multiple times, it's difficult to convey how traumatizing this is. I started to question my own sanity/vanity/mental health. "Maybe I'm being self important. Maybe I have an undiagnosed mental illness." This caused me significant life damage, because it was not the first nor second time (nor the last time) that such an unattributed event occurred.
I still don't know if this was due to a corrupt FB insider feeding celebrity friends, hacking, shoulder surfing, or what. FB insider is the most logical guess. I sought help from the local tech community. Shortly thereafter, my landlord and his associate wound up threatening me -- seemingly out of context, but in a pre-meditated fashion -- with murder. Then, I was threatened by a friend of this celebrity when he promised to ruin my career if I "talk(ed) about what happened". This was highly traumatizing; I was alone, scared, and silenced. I eventually talked about it on FB. Thereafter, I was retaliated against with threats of violence and defamation from a local gang member. Based on these escalations, it seems exceedingly unlikely that the initial stalking/harassment was due to my imagination running wild.
In a seemingly unrelated matter in the same timeframe, I was stalked and targeted by two men, related to my failing startup. This occurred at a large, well-connected public establishment, also using supposedly private data (ostensibly gleaned from email this time, related to contractual matter for new client in the five figure range).
There were other incidents of harassment that occurred thereafter, particularly during the last administration. I live in an area with heavily polarized political leanings and entrenched long term racial/cultural tensions.
I did contact the police, who were unresponsive. After extensive complaining, I eventually did catch the attention of the FBI, who did offer to help, but it's been a long time and the damage is long since done, with little hope to prove anything. Testimony alone is insufficient to prove a pattern of malicious behavior by others. I've also had traumatizing experiences dealing with attorneys and courtrooms and don't wish to pursue civil action anyway.
These incidents occurred in a small, tightly knit community to which I was a total outsider transplant.
Makes me think of the series DEVS where a big Silicon Valley company also uses their security force in a similar manner, I never thought that would be the part that was the most accurate.
It's scary that this happened at Ebay, I dread to think what kind of shit a company with the funds of google or facebook could pull off.