I did not want to get into this, but you're simply spread falsehoods.
> GrapheneOS doesn't ship integration of proprietary services like CalyxOS, whether that's WhatsApp or Google services.
We do not ship anything proprietary. We ship microG, which is "A free-as-in-freedom re-implementation of Google’s proprietary Android user space apps and libraries." - see https://microg.org/
We ship an integration with WhatsApp in the Dialer, which is entirely open source code. It is based on the existing contacts mechanism (anyone who has WhatsApp or Signal on any Android will see entries for those in the Contacts app - that is what we expose to the Dialer to make it easy to use those to make end-to-end encrypted calls.
In fact, WhatsApp is not listed by default, it only shows up if you have it installed. We believe that end-to-end encrypted calls are important, and while this would leak some metadata, if one has it installed already presumably they're fine with that. The network effect is strong!
In fact, you're the one who's promoting your approach of being able to run the proprietary Play Services - and yet you say you don't ship integration of proprietary services. Which is it? You can't ship Play Services legally anyway.
> or example, they give special unattended installation privileges to Aurora Store and F-Droid.
Aurora Store does not get unattended installation permission, it never has. It can only update installed apps, which is what Google is allowing in Android 12.
F-Droid Privileged Extension is extended, and both that and F-Droid have received security audits in the past which haven't found issues - and the Privileged Extension itself hasn't changed much since then. We're very careful about making any changes there.
It is one thing to give constructive criticism to projects, it's another to attack them directly based on falsehoods.
> I did not want to get into this, but you're simply spread falsehoods.
I'm not spreading any falsehoods.
> We do not ship anything proprietary.
You ship integration of proprietary services including Google services and WhatsApp. You provide them with privileged integration unavailable to other apps.
> We ship microG, which is "A free-as-in-freedom re-implementation of Google’s proprietary Android user space apps and libraries." - see https://microg.org/
i.e. an implementation of proprietary Google services.
> We ship an integration with WhatsApp in the Dialer, which is entirely open source code. It is based on the existing contacts mechanism (anyone who has WhatsApp or Signal on any Android will see entries for those in the Contacts app - that is what we expose to the Dialer to make it easy to use those to make end-to-end encrypted calls.
i.e. integration of proprietary services into the OS in a way that isn't available to other apps.
> In fact, you're the one who's promoting your approach of being able to run the proprietary Play Services - and yet you say you don't ship integration of proprietary services. Which is it?
GrapheneOS does not include any form of Play services and has no support for the OS using it. If a user installs Play services, the OS detects it and intercepts the attempts it makes to use privileged APIs and instead returns placeholder data.
With microG, the Play services code is still present in each app using it. microG is an additional trusted party, not implementing the same level of transport security or other security checks and does not avoid trusting the Play services code to exactly the same extent.
> You can't ship Play Services legally anyway.
Not actually true. Do you claim that stuff like firmware cannot be shipped too?
> Aurora Store does not get unattended installation permission, it never has. It can only update installed apps, which is what Google is allowing in Android 12.
No, they're allowing it in a more secure, restricted way rather than what is implemented in CalyxOS. Look at the list of requirements for an unattended app update via the Android 12 API.
> F-Droid Privileged Extension is extended, and both that and F-Droid have received security audits in the past which haven't found issues - and the Privileged Extension itself hasn't changed much since then. We're very careful about making any changes there.
Shallow security audits in the past is meaningless. F-Droid is an API 25 app (Android 7.1) with a a metadata signing system with the same weaknesses as Android's deprecated v1 signature scheme and massive attack surface. It bypasses the standard OS security model for determining sources of apps rather than respecting it. This is incompatible with the expected the security model for unattended app updates in Android 12.
> It is one thing to give constructive criticism to projects, it's another to attack them directly based on falsehoods.
I'm not doing that. Rather, that is what you folks have been doing at every opportunity in these threads. I've only posted here to defend us from malicious misinformation being spread by you folks. You're engaging in that yourself and can't claim to be uninvolved.
> GrapheneOS does not include any form of Play services and has no support for the OS using it. If a user installs Play services, the OS detects it and intercepts the attempts it makes to use privileged APIs and instead returns placeholder data.
Isn't that shipping an integration for a proprietary service?
How can you claim that we're the ones shipping proprietary service integrations when we ship an open source implementation, and you're the ones shipping an integration for the proprietary implementation.
I'm done here, there's no point arguing with you, you don't see reason.
> Not actually true. Do you claim that stuff like firmware cannot be shipped too?
It's the sole reason why there exists the concept of flashing gapps are installing other custom ROMs, and that cannot be supported without verified boot.
The other way is what you're doing, which is impressive, not questioning the code / implementation, just the way you're trying to present it here.
>How can you claim that we're the ones shipping proprietary service integrations when we ship an open source implementation, and you're the ones shipping an integration for the proprietary implementation.
Play Services is not integrated into GrapheneOS at all. It only has a few shims that, as strcat explained several times, return placeholder data. Play Services has no special permissions, and using it on GOS is the same as installing any other app.
microG is integrated into your OS. It's a partial reimplementation of proprietary Play Services.
That was for distributing Google apps, not for shipping firmware updates. You're making a false comparison.
As you could see if you had read strcat's comments and the documentation, GrapheneOS doesn't ship Play Services but only some compatibility shims, otherwise Play wouldn't know how to work. Users must manually install Play and associated apps.
> GrapheneOS doesn't ship integration of proprietary services like CalyxOS, whether that's WhatsApp or Google services.
We do not ship anything proprietary. We ship microG, which is "A free-as-in-freedom re-implementation of Google’s proprietary Android user space apps and libraries." - see https://microg.org/
We ship an integration with WhatsApp in the Dialer, which is entirely open source code. It is based on the existing contacts mechanism (anyone who has WhatsApp or Signal on any Android will see entries for those in the Contacts app - that is what we expose to the Dialer to make it easy to use those to make end-to-end encrypted calls.
In fact, WhatsApp is not listed by default, it only shows up if you have it installed. We believe that end-to-end encrypted calls are important, and while this would leak some metadata, if one has it installed already presumably they're fine with that. The network effect is strong!
In fact, you're the one who's promoting your approach of being able to run the proprietary Play Services - and yet you say you don't ship integration of proprietary services. Which is it? You can't ship Play Services legally anyway.
> or example, they give special unattended installation privileges to Aurora Store and F-Droid.
Aurora Store does not get unattended installation permission, it never has. It can only update installed apps, which is what Google is allowing in Android 12.
F-Droid Privileged Extension is extended, and both that and F-Droid have received security audits in the past which haven't found issues - and the Privileged Extension itself hasn't changed much since then. We're very careful about making any changes there.
It is one thing to give constructive criticism to projects, it's another to attack them directly based on falsehoods.