>Yeah you don't usually get a shiny new car and an unnecessarily large house having kids at 21, but the life you're talking about is a negative for humanity.

This is so far from what I’m talking about that it’s closer to what I’m arguing against than for it. I am not talking about materialistic things. I am talking about experiences, relationships, and outlook-defining memories.

> What does it matter when you're happy and have everything you need to survive and provide anyways? That's what a "win" is.

Eating buttered potatoes for the rest of my life isn’t a win to me even if it will technically sustain me.

You can do more. You can be more. You can experience more. And most people don’t even try. Sad.

> I am talking about experiences, relationships, and outlook-defining memories.

And "pumping out kids" as you put it does this for many people. Sorry it doesn't for you, but saying that it isn't a "win" for some people is short sighted.

> You can do more. You can be more. You can experience more.

Many would say the same of those in their 30s and 40s with kids.

> Sad.

Again, many would say the same about your aspirations. Insulting, isn't it?

My point being, what makes you happy, doesn't make others, so don't cast someone who has kids at 21 with a home and ability to provide for them into a bucket of not "winning" at life.

>And "pumping out kids" as you put it does this for many people. Sorry it doesn't for you, but saying that it isn't a "win" for some people is short sighted.

Who says it doesn’t for me? I’m not against kids. I want kids, I’m going to have kids. But I’m going to finish getting some bucket list items out of the way first, when they’re possible and practical to do.

>Many would say the same of those in their 30s and 40s with kids.

Some things are either not possible or not responsible to do once you have kids. And once they’re adults, you’re too old.

>Again, many would say the same about your aspirations. Insulting, isn't it?

Not at all! I’m okay with that. Everyone’s living their own life and others can have an opinion on it if they want to.

>My point being, what makes you happy, doesn't make others, so don't cast someone who has kids at 21 with a home and ability to provide for them into a bucket of not "winning" at life.

Again, I started a more involved discussion, but the original comment strongly implied that earlier is better and I disagree. Sorry you’re taking it so personally.

"You can do more. You can be more. You can experience more. And most people don’t even try. Sad."

I had a lot of experiences before I had kids. Traveled the world, great jobs, career, friends.

But those all seem pretty empty by comparison. I'm glad I did all that, but a lot of it (while very exciting at the time) I see as been-there-done-that. (Though I still get a lot of satisfaction from my career.)

But at some point I realized that human relationships are just a lot deeper than a trip to a faraway temple. And, though I like my friends, marriage and kids is just a much deeper relationship, full stop.

Also, I figure it's time to let the next generation experience things for the first time. I'd rather share those experiences with my kids then do another experience for myself and my friends for the Nth time.

I suspect that you are young, and you might also change your mind at some point. For me I just got to the point where I realized that I could go pretty much anywhere I wanted -- enough vacation time and money. And I just didn't want to.

Professional accomplishments are also great, so I don't criticize you if that's where you find meaning. But retirement might be pretty painful if so.

>But retirement might be pretty painful if so.

There are many careers that don't require or even suggest retirement. I've heard of professors dying mid semester. That's how I'd like to go - in the midst of doing what I live for.

>Eating buttered potatoes for the rest of my life isn’t a win to me

Speak for yourself!