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> I gave up on ec2 when they started requiring you "request for quota" to start a gpu instance.

Sadly, the scourge of crypto mining combined with credit card fraud makes it really hard to do otherwise for any sizeable hoster. :/



Wow, never realized that that could be a great money laundering strategy.

1. Take cash, load it onto prepaid cards.

2. Buy GPU instances.

3. Mine crypto.

4. Pay for compute with #1

5. Sell crypto

6. "Clean" cash

I just don't have the mind of a criminal I guess, it sounds like this was figured out a long time ago.

There are (were) enough random kids in thier basements making millions on crypto that it probably wouldn't turn too many eyebrows either by the IRS if you actually tried to report your crypto earnings cleanly, they would likely spend their efforts chasing down the people who weren't reporting.


Fortunatelly your evil ML plan going to fail on #1. It's basically impossible to get some cash loaded to prepaid cards anywhere. Also AWS and other hosting providers wouldn't accept prepaid cards either. Instead you just buy crypto with cash P2P and report that as mined or whatever.

On other hand credit card fraud is real problem especially due to fact that Amazon don't want to add any KYC burden on their customers or try to track down any anomaly spending. After all good chunk of AWS profits come out of fact how bad people of tracking their cloud costs.

If Amazon to implement built-in option to track suspicious jumps of AWS costs then it's not only gonna cut on fraud, but on overall AWS profits.


you can buy prepaid cards with cash at any drug store. you have to pay with cash for most prepaid cards (or use a debit transaction).

the downside is the insanely high service fee -- 7 or 8 bucks per 500


Couldn't you also buy GPUs in person with cash and mine with them?


That's when you end up with the electricity bill of a weed farm and you get cops busting down your doors.


That would be true regardless of the means of obtaining the GPUs -- I was just replying to the issue of the cash->GPU funnel, not asserting that any other part of the operation is easy.


> If Amazon to implement built-in option to track suspicious jumps of AWS costs then it's not only gonna cut on fraud, but on overall AWS profits.

OK. https://aws.amazon.com/aws-cost-management/aws-cost-anomaly-...


That's a good way of monetizing stolen credit card but it would be a very bad way to do money laundering, because crypto is effectively "cash" so it still isn't clean. It doesn't have a good origin story.

Basically for money laundering you want to have a good story for your money that you can get tax authorities and banks to believe. "I found some crypto" would only work at small scale, and crypto is considered "high risk" anyway so you'll get higher scrutiny.

If I was in the business of laundering money and I wanted to do it via crypto, I think I would create an NFT instead then buy it from myself. Then I have funds I can transfer to cash, and I can claim I got them through my great artistic abilities.


The NFT sounds better but assuming the police FBI, DEA etc. are smart, which they probably are, they can see that you are not famous in the NFT world so why did someone pay so much. So you would need to almost be able to make a million anyway (just pure NFT grift) to launder a million (some other source)


IOW, money laundering works best as an adjunct to a profitable real business, same with crypto as with laundromats and vending machines.


GPUs are not used to mine cryptos anymore, it's last year's news. There are much easier ways to launder money.


I don't know about AWS but with GCP the instance gets suspended if you try mining


Maybe they should let you bypass the quota system if you pay in advance via bank transfer then?


There are a lot of systems and features that are hard (impossible?) to design in a way where you can predict (every dimension of) spend; you can only react to spend events.

For example, a theoretical "prepaid AWS" might allow you to put a hold on a vCPU-month of account credits to start a 1vCPU instance. But what about the bandwidth egress fees when someone makes requests to said instance? Those are going to be completely variable, depending on how much traffic the instance receives.


Yeah, but there are plenty of organizations which have very modest or predictable loads that would be significantly well served by knowing that the monthly spend was capped at $X prepaid.

As a nobody, I want to use AWS, but I refuse to have the unlimited liability in case I screw up something and wake up to a $30k bill. Hell, they could even over-charge me on the credits, and I would gladly take that deal if I knew that once the kitty ran dry, services would stop.

Would there be edge cases and complications to resolve (eg what about storage?). Sure, but AWS pays some smart people a lot of money to figure out tricky things.


I work at AWS in Professional Services of course all opinions are my own.

The answer for you is LightSail.

LightSail is a standard VPS. But if you want to upgrade to “real AWS” later on, you can. The only thing that I’m aware of that could cause bills to go up is egress over your allowance.

To be honest with you, I would be slightly afraid of screwing up and having an unexpected bill from AWS if I were doing a personal project and I do this for a living. There have been plenty of times where I left something expensive running or provisioned an expensive service (Kendra) and forgot to shut it down until I ended up on a list of “people with the highest spend” on our internal system on one of my non production accounts.


If AWS truly cared about customers they would implement spending limits. Note the plural: Customers don't want their S3 data deleted because some GPU stuff went crazy.

But AWS prefers profit.


How would that actually work? When you reach your spending limit, delete your data from S3 that you’re being charged for? Stop allowing egress traffic? Stop allowing any API calls that cost money? Stop your EC2 instance?

AWS has over 200 services. How would you implement that conceptually?

I know it’s a real concern when learning AWS for most people. I first learned AWS technologies at a 60 person company where I had admin access from day one to the AWS account and then went to AWS where I can open as many accounts as I want for learning. So I haven’t had to deal with that issue.

But what better way would you suggest than LightSail where you have known costs up front?


I think it could be done reactively, as long as two things are true:

1. spending limits are fine-grained — rather than having one global budget for your entire AWS project, instead, each billable SKU inside a project would have its own separate configurable spending limit. The goal here isn't to say "I ran out of money; stop trying to charge me more money"; it's rather to say "I have budgeted X for the base spend for the static resources, which I will continue paying; but I have budgeted Y for the unpredictable/variable spend, and have exceeded that limit, so stop allowing anything to happen that will generate unpredictable/variable spend."

This way, you can continue to pay for e.g. S3 storage, while capping spend on S3 download (which would presumably make reading from buckets in the project impossible while this is in effect); or you can continue paying for your EC2 instances, while capping egress fees on them (which would presumably make you unable to make requests to the instances, but they'd still be running, so you wouldn't lose the state for any ephemeral instances.)

2. AWS "eats" the credit-spend events of a billing SKU between the time it detects budget-overlimit of that billing SKU, and the time it finishes applying policy to the resource that will stop it from generating any more credit-spend events on that billing SKU. (This is why this kind of protection logic can never be implemented the way people want by a third party: a third party can only watch AWS audit events and react by sending API requests; it has no authority to retroactively say "and anything that happens in between the two, disregard that at billing time, since that spend was our fault for not reacting faster.")

Note that implementing #2 actually makes implementing #1 much easier. To implement #1 alone, you'd have to have each service have some internal accounting-quota system that predicts how much spend "would be" happening in the billing layer, and can respond to that by disabling features in (soft) realtime for specific users in response to those users exceeding a credit quota configured in some other service. But if you add #2, then that accounting logic can be handled centrally and asynchronously in an accounting service which consumes periodic batched pushes of credit-spend-counter increments from other services. The accounting service could emit CQRS command "disable services generating billable SKU X for customer Y starting from timestamp Z" to a message queue, and the service itself could see it (and react by writing to an in-memory blackboard that endpoints A/B/C are disabled for user Y); but the invoicing service could also see it, and recompute the invoice for customer Y for the current month, with all spend events for billing SKU X after timestamp Z dropped from the invoice.


In Washington State we have an account for toll infrastructure. You set a top-up amount and a minimum. When the minimum is reached, the top-up is charged to your card and applied. If that fails a bill is mailed to you. If you fail to pay that then civil penalties are assessed.


Your point? The goal here would be to have a policy that protects you from someone stealing your toll badge (i.e. hacking into your AWS account) and running you through a toll bridge a million times (i.e. generating huge variable spend.) I don't see how what you're saying relates.


My point is that pre-paid accounts are well developed and understood.


You'd think my > 10 year old AWS account with usage history would be enough, but apparently not.


Devil's advocate: 10 year old accounts are probably just as likely as any to get hacked into and used for crypto mining, and honestly I bet a majority of their customers don't even use GPU instances.


One could argue that older accounts are even more likely to get hacked, as they are more likely to have older passwords that are weaker that may have been leaked along the way, along with various other accumulated security issues (leaked API keys, out of date 2FA choices etc).


Yep, Amazon's threat model has less to do with how reputable a given account is, since credential theft is rampant. Even at massive institutional customers on POs I've had to apply for quotas.




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