So much this. Kids are living, breathing, thinking human beings. They are immature yes. But that doesn't remove the value of their opinions or their agency. And it's not to say you give them everything they want, but that you find common ground and aren't seen as dictating things without reason. If you can explain your point of view in terms they understand, compliance is far more likely.
For the most part, my kids have unlimited access to electronics and the internet. Yeah, sometimes they watch stupid TikTok videos or silly toy reviews on Youtube. Other times they are learning how to code or learning how to knit or how to make slime from common household materials, etc. Last week I baked bread with my daughter because she found a recipe on TikTok she wanted to try out. They sometimes watch content I don't like or agree with, but often that's resolved just by talking about why I don't think it's good content or sending a good message. I've talked to both of my daughters about why I don't like SSSniperWolf content as an example. Usually this works out fine, but none of the things they watch are so egregious I feel like I need to cut them off. And who am I to judge the occasional mindless entertainment when I've always done the same and I can readily see it's a small portion of the content they are consuming?
When I hear folks talking about zero access and no smart devices until X years, I have to ask myself where the trust and relationship exists between these parents and their children. I just can't imagine not having enough of a relationship with my kids to not have a good understanding of what they are up to online and how they are perceiving it. I can't imagine not being able to trust the values that I've instilled in my children and having to cut them off from the world to hide that neglect. Further, I feel these sort of blanket bans put kids into a position where they feel they need to hide what they do from their parents online which is the absolute opposite of what they should be thinking.
That said, we do have restrictions. No electronics during dinner or shared entertainment sort of things. People scrolling social media during movie time is a pet peeve of mine. The electronic devices are not an escape from small talk during boring family dinners or the slow part of the show we're watching.
I feel like this is the kind of advice that fits perfect when everything is going swimmingly but becomes much more complicated when other negative influencing factors come in to play.
When they are blind to something that you can plainly see is a net-negative for their life it seems like it would be much harder to not intervene.
I'm not speaking as someone who has lived this but I have observed a close family member who very much has the relationships and parenting style you're describing and I've watched this parent go through incredibly challenging situation after situation as her kids have grown into teenagehood (covid really did a number on kids coming of age). It's not that her kids are bad either, a tad naive perhaps, but genuinely good kids.
> I feel like this is the kind of advice that fits perfect when everything is going swimmingly but becomes much more complicated when other negative influencing factors come in to play.
How is this different from literally any other social interaction in your life? I extend folks the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise as a general rule. The same policy applied to my children has had fantastic results for the past 18 years. Should distrust and suspicion be the default? No thanks, I’d rather like to have a meaningful relationship with them continue long after they become self sufficient.
The same way you know that what anyone is telling you is true and not something they just made up that you'd agree more strongly with. As in, the trust is there until such a time as it has been violated and you have to revisit your priors to reconcile your new world view. My sample size is limited to three, so I cannot claim to be an authority on this. But of those three, one has graduated and the other two are well on their way to do more than that and I've had no reason to suspect they are harboring some secret desires based on things they learned on the internet that they have been patiently waiting for years to put into action. Honestly if they can deceive me for years while watching meaningless TikTok videos that are supposed to corrupt their mind, they are clearly way more prepared for existence in a capitalist society than I ever was.
It's the same as I view the relationship with my wife. I'm not going to assume she's cheating and force her to install spy software so I can monitor all of her activity just to make sure. Of course this doesn't guarantee that she will never cheat, but if you presuppose the outcome it'll be far more likely to end up that way I believe.
I've also experienced that this extension of trust is reciprocated. One time my son was hanging out with some of his friends after high school. He's not one to make friends easily and this was one of the few times he went out on an "adventure" like this. They did typical teenage boy hooligan stuff. He was comfortable enough to tell me about what they had gotten up to so we were able to have a discussion around it and I explained the likely outcomes of continuing down that sort of path. At some point that "harmless fun" can become a lot less harmless and have real consequences. I didn't have to ground him or ban him from seeing those kids again. He took the lesson and ran with it. I'd never want my son to feel like he has to hide something like that from me, and I feel if you're going too authoritarian you corrode the trust that let's them be honest with you. When my kids are in trouble, I want them to think of me as a possible solution and not someone they have to hide it from instead.
Again, I won't claim to be any sort of expert on this. I parent like anyone else. As best we can with the tools we're given. My sample size is small with 9, 11 (10 & 12 this month!), and and 18 year old. But I know for a fact I would never have told my parents about any shenanigans I got up to and I'm having conversations with my kids that I couldn't have imagined having with my parents. We never had that sort of relationship.
I’d also be willing to put money on the fact that I spend way more time with my children than someone like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs did with their children. I’ve worked from home for the last 10 years. I’ve been to every concert and sporting event. I’ve been to every teacher conference. If you don’t actually have a relationship with your children I’d see why you’d need to resort to more draconian policies to impart your will.
So much this. Kids are living, breathing, thinking human beings. They are immature yes. But that doesn't remove the value of their opinions or their agency. And it's not to say you give them everything they want, but that you find common ground and aren't seen as dictating things without reason. If you can explain your point of view in terms they understand, compliance is far more likely.
For the most part, my kids have unlimited access to electronics and the internet. Yeah, sometimes they watch stupid TikTok videos or silly toy reviews on Youtube. Other times they are learning how to code or learning how to knit or how to make slime from common household materials, etc. Last week I baked bread with my daughter because she found a recipe on TikTok she wanted to try out. They sometimes watch content I don't like or agree with, but often that's resolved just by talking about why I don't think it's good content or sending a good message. I've talked to both of my daughters about why I don't like SSSniperWolf content as an example. Usually this works out fine, but none of the things they watch are so egregious I feel like I need to cut them off. And who am I to judge the occasional mindless entertainment when I've always done the same and I can readily see it's a small portion of the content they are consuming?
When I hear folks talking about zero access and no smart devices until X years, I have to ask myself where the trust and relationship exists between these parents and their children. I just can't imagine not having enough of a relationship with my kids to not have a good understanding of what they are up to online and how they are perceiving it. I can't imagine not being able to trust the values that I've instilled in my children and having to cut them off from the world to hide that neglect. Further, I feel these sort of blanket bans put kids into a position where they feel they need to hide what they do from their parents online which is the absolute opposite of what they should be thinking.
That said, we do have restrictions. No electronics during dinner or shared entertainment sort of things. People scrolling social media during movie time is a pet peeve of mine. The electronic devices are not an escape from small talk during boring family dinners or the slow part of the show we're watching.