>> are the crazy-high rankings of Britain's top schools
The problem(in general) with University rankings is that the ranking is done almost entirely on the number of publications.....in English. So it's no wonder that British universities take a lot of the top spots. I've had these conversations many many many times with people - it's not like the Universities of Warsaw or Milan or Prague are not as good as Oxford - but that's not what you're going to see in rankings because a lot of research doesn't get published in English, so somehow it doesn't "count".
As a completely separate point - British universities got absolutely decimated by Brexit in ways that are not immediately apparent, but I work with couple professors at Russel Group universities and they all say the same thing - the number of PhD and research positions applicants from the EU has gone from hundreds a year to literally a handful a year. Some of those were replaced by British applicants or non-EU applicants, but the number of people who want to be researchers in Britan and further the scientific fields has dropped drastically.
I have several friends that are 30+ years as lecturers, also at Russell Group universities, and their view is very different to yours. They're generally of the opinion that UK universities have now turned into visa-mills and poorly run money machines, with lots of students signing up, but far fewer turning up in person and completing the courses.
Essentially the Blair-era of 'expand the universities' (and cynically get the 18-21 yr olds out of the unemployment figures) has lowered standards across the board. They don't, however, see anything like the "drastic" drop in numbers you report.
As an employer in finance, I've seen our criteria in the early 90s go from a first or 2:1 from anywhere, to a first from Oxford/Cambridge/Bristol/Durham/Imperial only, and now our criteria is an MSc from a list, or a PhD from anywhere. Yes, a PhD. And we still get dozens of applicants for a single job.
> British universities got absolutely decimated by Brexit
It's likely heading for another cliff dive, as the UK government is constricting the supply of student visas (because immigration), and application numbers are nosediving.
I got a great education in the UK and think back on it very fondly, but these days I'd advise people to apply to the US instead. It might even be cheaper.
And also don't forget the student fees for international students have absolutely exploded. 10 years ago the fees for international students were £6k/year, now it's £30k/year. Like honestly, who can afford this, when you can study at most other EU universities completely free(or even get a stipend in fact).
>>as they UK government is constricting the supply of student visas (because immigration)
Can't stop myself thinking that it's probably at least partially because of scaremongering you see in newspapers about those lazy immigrants who pretend to be students but are actually coming to work here. Which ok, I'm sure is happening in places, but it can't be even remotely significant on any kind of scale, but the reaction now is to even further constraint our own supply of well educated people, it's madness.
It's extraordinary how determined the current UK government is to destroy its university sector. The economic and geopolitical advantages of having one of the world's best university systems are not only incalculable but also blindingly obvious. And yet apparently not too obvious to be missed by the caliber of person that currently makes up the cabinet.
There has been a precipitous drop in overseas university applications for the coming academic year. It was reported today that Cameron has warned Sunak that his visa reforms are likely to lead to university closures. The cabinet is aware of the problem but I don't think there is any limit to the damage Sunak is prepared to do when he believes it will improve Tory election chances.
We’re at 170 or so universities up from 90 or so pre-2000. I’m struggling to see the value in those universities and why the tax payer should be funding almost twice as many. Any other failing business would be allowed to go bankrupt and be wound up. Does any other country have such a massive increase in universities?
The new universities provide exactly the same kind of value that the old ones do, so I'm not sure why it's difficult to see what that value is (unless you just think universities in general are pointless). Countries should invest heavily in their comparative strengths. By any measure the UK punches hugely above its weight in global higher education. It's short-sighted beyond belief to throw that advantage away simply because some universities (a minority in fact) do not turn a profit in the simplistic sense that, say, a lemonade stand does. Moreover, if it is money you are worried about, then the measure that Sunak is proposing will only exacerbate the problem by cutting off a major source of funding.
The newer universities are, of course, not as good on average as the older ones. However, it takes decades, or centuries even, to build a world-class university. It would be a terrible mistake to close down these newer institutions simply because they have not somehow become competitors to the Russell Group or the Ivy League overnight. The short term cost saving (if there even is one) would amount to pennies in comparison to the terrible economic and social consequences to be passed on to future generations. But what hope is there of the current cabinet thinking further than the next few months?
> a lot of research doesn't get published in English, so somehow it doesn't "count".
As it shouldn't. I am from a non-English speaking country myself, and I cannot begin to tell you how senseless it is to cling to native languages for any serious work. It's creating an arbitrary barrier to collaboration just for pride or convenience. English is the lingua-franca (lol) of the world, just embrace it and stop being proud of your weird language that you're stuck with because of random traditions and geography.
Imagine Prague universities would have top AI research published in Czech, would that actually help the scientific community? My bet is: not until someone goes and translates it to English, is it going to be read by anybody outside of the country, whether that person is native English or not.
In this thread there's a lot of talk of the EU losing competitiveness because it is a fragmented market between a group of isolationist countries, opinions like these are a big part of that. Stop putting English second place, this is a global world now, English is the language of the global world, learn it, use it, or lose.
It's not about pride - it's about the reality of the fact that most academics do not have a sufficient command of English to write research papers in that language. We can lament this fact if you wish, but somehow it seems more important to me that a mathematics or chemistry researcher is good at those categories and not necessarily at writing in English. Again, you can think this is their loss - and maybe it is, but my general point is that the quality of their research isn't any worse just because it isn't done in English.
The obvious solution to this is translation - but I'm sure you can see why not every research paper is translated, the cost of doing so would have to be carried by someone so only some papers are translated, which means that by default English-speaking universities are getting a better position in rankings because all of their research counts, no matter how bad or good it is.
>>Imagine Prague universities would have top AI research published in Czech, would that actually help the scientific community?
Well it's a bit of a catch 22 - if it was top AI research, then university of Prague would pay to have it translated and then yes it would help.
> the fact that most academics do not have a sufficient command of English to write research papers in that language.
Because the academics are not taught in English, which they should be, because they will need to command English sufficiently if they wish to participate in the global science community. Again, this is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
> the quality of their research isn't any worse just because it isn't done in English
No but the quality of their work as a researcher is, because communication and collaboration is a part of research.
> The obvious solution to this is translation
No its not, because translation is exactly the meaningless overhead I was talking about. It does not aid in collaboration because its still a one-way process, and its lossy.
If only these were done on publications, it would be a lot more accurate.
English is the lingua franca of science, like it used to be german, because ideas build on each other so you need to be able to communicate your ideas to others.
Having your native language be the lingua franca is helpful, but many of these universities are filled with foreigners who have learnt English. They could have stayed in their native countries, but they chose not to.
The problem(in general) with University rankings is that the ranking is done almost entirely on the number of publications.....in English. So it's no wonder that British universities take a lot of the top spots. I've had these conversations many many many times with people - it's not like the Universities of Warsaw or Milan or Prague are not as good as Oxford - but that's not what you're going to see in rankings because a lot of research doesn't get published in English, so somehow it doesn't "count".
As a completely separate point - British universities got absolutely decimated by Brexit in ways that are not immediately apparent, but I work with couple professors at Russel Group universities and they all say the same thing - the number of PhD and research positions applicants from the EU has gone from hundreds a year to literally a handful a year. Some of those were replaced by British applicants or non-EU applicants, but the number of people who want to be researchers in Britan and further the scientific fields has dropped drastically.