There are assumptions on both sides. I would say that a big one on your part is just assuming that everyone with a CS degree is by default a competent and capable developer because of their education. Every CS program, professor, and student are not the same and that variance eliminates any self evidence of credibility of a CS degree.
However, I’ll admit I have a bias based on my experience, and that certainly results in my assuming more inventiveness of the self-taught. Perhaps I have been lucky on that front. Reality has been that not every self-taught dev has been great and not every CS grad has been bad. However, if I lay it on a balance, the balance for me leans a specific direction when it comes to the best people that I have worked with over the years. Perhaps you are right and I have just been lucky.
I thought I was done but I suppose we have reached the heart of the matter.
>There are assumptions on both sides. I would say that a big one on your part is just assuming that everyone with a CS degree is by default a competent and capable developer because of their education.
I would never assume such a thing. But for sure, the odds are good.
>Every CS program, professor, and student are not the same and that variance eliminates any self evidence of credibility of a CS degree.
Well, every accredited program passes certain criteria evaluated on a regular basis. Any student who graduates from one meets the minimum requirements. What are the minimum requirements to claim to be self-taught? There literally aren't any. You just have to bullshit your way into the job. We could potentially accept a lot of self-taught people in other fields. Do you want to drive on a bridge made by a self-taught civil engineer, have your blood drawn by a self-taught nurse, or deal with self-taught drivers on your way to work in the morning? We have credentials for good reasons, even if it may not be strictly necessary to do the job on a logical level.
I am beginning to think that your good luck with self-taught colleagues is potentially evidence that only adequately talented self-taught people can make it in the field, in the long run. And software is far more welcoming of self-taught people than just about any other field, certainly among the hard technical fields. People in the arts are very often self-taught, of course.
> evidence that only adequately talented self-taught people can make it in the field, in the long run.
I’d accept that, certainly the ones competing for positions against CS grads are going to be the more capable and confident (more than just in bullshit to get the job) where the less capable self-sorted out of the vocation.
> And software is far more welcoming of self-taught people than just about any other field, certainly among the hard technical fields. People in the arts are very often self-taught, of course.
In a way this kind of speaks to my point. Software development has both a technical and a creative component, perhaps not in equal parts, but different problems in our space might be a different mix of each. Most of the projects I have been involved with probably leaned towards requiring a a more creative mind and perhaps this has colored my opinion.
However, I’ll admit I have a bias based on my experience, and that certainly results in my assuming more inventiveness of the self-taught. Perhaps I have been lucky on that front. Reality has been that not every self-taught dev has been great and not every CS grad has been bad. However, if I lay it on a balance, the balance for me leans a specific direction when it comes to the best people that I have worked with over the years. Perhaps you are right and I have just been lucky.