After seeing all the comments here I'm a bit relieved.
I don't care about the CEO's political stance, but Vercel's involvement with React has rubbed me the wrong way since the start of development of RSC. The development was basically behind half-closed doors, pretty much tied to Next.js (i.e. Vercel) and with zero specs except a high level description of what they were and their public API.
I don't care that they were WIP: the community should've been involved, not Vercel as a benevolent dictator guiding their design from start to almost finish. Such a huge paradigm shift shouldn't have been dictated by any particular entity... and IMO much less Next's team which I think are prone to overengineering and bad decisions.
IIRC there were points in time (maybe even currently?) where you had to use packages that were published to NPM but not even on any public repo.
I love the idea of RSC but that's where my love ends.
I like React a lot... but tbf, I never really quite agreed with the RSC push in general. I think most web-based apps are fine with client-render against an API/GraphQL/WebSocket backend. RSC is just a few steps too far in both Pure-Fucking-Magic (PFM) and rigidity in approach.
If there was a component library as complete as MUI for Yew/Dioxus/Leptos I'd have likely already switched to Rust/WASM.
Personally I really wanted RSC because I have a DIY SSG based on React.
It's dead simple but only supports static components. Something like RSC would allow me to automatically cook a bundle with only the interactive parts (think e.g. a custom dropdown or whatever) while still remaining fully static.
Now I'm not so sure given how they're developing...
RSC should never have made client support opt-in. During RFC it was identified as a problem, but Shopify and Vercel pushed for an intentional breakage "for the greater good" in driving adoption.
(conveniently ignoring that they're likely two of the only platforms that will ever want to take on the complexity of a non-toy RSC deployments)
And not merely by contrast with the fact that React is such a depressing drag to work with -- Svelte is independently joyful and refreshing, in an of itself! The "oh thank God I'm not using React" feeling is just a bonus.
Increasingly bloated and complicated frameworks with intangible benefits used for webpages that are now just training data for LLMs is much more important.
Very fair! I only came back to edit it because right after leaving that comment I went to see if Best Buy had something I needed locally, clicked into search, typed, hit enter, and it fucking broke. Seemingly entirely, even the search button didn't work, so cmd+a, cmd+c, cmd+r, click in again, paste, enter, and that worked.
I just fucking loathe how common this experience is now. Amazon seems to be the only one that doesn't do it, but I've experienced this exact issue on Best Buy, Target, Etsy, Mercari, ebay, and it just DRIVES ME UP THE WALL.
In this case people are critical of other things also and want to voice those things for selfish reasons without getting into mud slinging contests with fanatics who are protecting everything shitty just because it's their favourite hater that is on one side.
Perfect is the enemy of good and an ally of fanaticism.
> Are you suggesting that vercels CEO is to be compared with Adolf Hitler
No, Netanyahu.
Who Vercel's CEO recently posted for a selfie with on X, wishing "greatness for Israel" without mentioning the genocide being committed by that person right now.
> For me, Vercels CEO statements made me realize I am ditching Deno Deploy for Vercel. Finally some tech ceo with good values
Hands down one of the cringiest things I've ever read on this site. And it's why people don't take HN seriously. It's filled with a bunch of 13 year-old "edgy" narcissists who can't code.
"Ok dude". Weird that I have been 13 for over 20 years by now and I guess I haven't learned to code while working for as programmer for more than 15 years. I must be the best con artist in the world since I've been getting a paycheck for all this time.
I think you're being way too charitable with Vercel's CEO. I don't doubt he came up with some way to justify to himself that what Israel is doing is completely necessary and reasonable. But I doubt you can get access to a press conference with Benyamin Netanyahu, then get close enough to shake his hand and take a selfie, then post the photo on social media with a tagline of the likes of "eternal glory to Israel" while having no idea of what is actually happening there. Either he's really that clueless about the world (in which case, how can he be CEO?), or he knows about the genocide and fully supports it.
> so I will give it exactly 0 seconds of thought when commenting on it.
You opened your post literally giving your thought about his political stance. Had you completely skipped this part, we'd be only discussing React and not Vercel's CEO stance.
Edit: Your quote can literally be understood as "His take doesn't bother me". If you didn't want to discuss this, you could (like someone else said) have worded it better to avoid confusion.
>Vercel's CEO political stance has zero impact on React's health
Sure it does! ReiserFS's popularity went way down after he murdered his wife.
And that's only from murdering one women and no children or men, so Reiser count of one kill (and holding steady) can't hold a candle to Netanyahu's mass murder kill count, which is rising fast by the day.
Why? Werner von Braun shouldn’t have been employed by the US, I think you’d agree. But also, his Nazi background didn’t preclude him from being a useful rocket scientist. Why does someone’s political ideas have any bearing on the merits of that person’s OSS technology (the thing this article is about).
>lol. The moment Guillermo posted that picture, the internet was awash with blogs and pieces about how to move away from Vercel (who everyone now sees as the stewards of React).
This is actually kinda hilarious to have to respond to and explain to.
>Just because you don't have principles, doesn't mean other people don't.
>Cmon. You can't possibly believe actions don't have consequences, do you?
That's not in the comment I replied to, but your quotes are a good example of why I'm asking you to give the guidelines a read through. This is an inappropriate way to express your disagreements.
> I don't care because I'm just analyzing Vercel's stewardship of React, and Vercel's CEO political stance has zero impact on React's health.
Just so that I'm following: You're saying that how the CEO is viewed does not in fact impact the company they are heading? And that the wave of people migrating from Vercel in light of Guillermo's post will not have any effect on React?
Obvious troll is obvious. I shouldn't have taken the bait but for a second I wanted to assume good intentions. You are obviously not asking in good faith and just want an excuse to act self-righteous.
lol. The moment Guillermo posted that picture, the internet was awash with blogs and pieces about how to move away from Vercel (who everyone now sees as the stewards of React).
This is actually kinda hilarious to have to respond to and explain to.
Just because you don't have principles, doesn't mean other people don't.
Cmon. You can't possibly believe actions don't have consequences, do you?
Commenters here are experts in react and have interests in technology, or are looking to understand more about these topics. No one reading here is an expert on geopolitical issues. You're just connecting on the wrong post, and probably the wrong website, if you want to talk about these things. There are places for that, but it's not here this comment section and if you keep trying to make it that you're just going to get down voted over and over.
But who has become the defacto steward of React over the last 5 years? Vercel.
Whose CEO has made a lot of news recently for their political views? Guillermo
What front-end framework library now needs to distance itself from Vercel as it's main steward? React.
IT'S ALL POLITICS. That's the entire point of the foundation. That's what this whole discussion is about.
> No one reading here is an expert on geopolitical issues. You're just connecting on the wrong post, and probably the wrong website, if you want to talk about these things
I don't know, I see a lot of posts and threads here of people discussing geo-political issues. Not just for the sake of it of course, but because politics is everywhere and affects everything, because technology is always going to have some form of politics attached, and because everyone is a political actor in their lives.
Separating fully any technology news and political happenstance is impossible. Now of course it doesn't mean every topic should devolve into identity politics, but having discussion about how and why things are they way they are is inherently political.
I don't care about the CEO's political stance, but Vercel's involvement with React has rubbed me the wrong way since the start of development of RSC. The development was basically behind half-closed doors, pretty much tied to Next.js (i.e. Vercel) and with zero specs except a high level description of what they were and their public API.
I don't care that they were WIP: the community should've been involved, not Vercel as a benevolent dictator guiding their design from start to almost finish. Such a huge paradigm shift shouldn't have been dictated by any particular entity... and IMO much less Next's team which I think are prone to overengineering and bad decisions.
IIRC there were points in time (maybe even currently?) where you had to use packages that were published to NPM but not even on any public repo.
I love the idea of RSC but that's where my love ends.
I thought I was alone on this.