At some point, doing things the "low code/no code" way turns out to be more painful than just . . . writing code.

for those that can write code. if you can't write code, the more painful way is just the way

A lot of those people end up writing code without realizing they’re writing code.

I don't know the MS offering, but places like Wix/Square or using WordPress definitely do not end up with the user writing code.

Instead, you end up installing an endless list of plugins that are sometimes so poorly written that I've decided to call WordPress "RCE-as-a-Service".

that just sounds more like a case of square peg and a round hole. Yes, WP is a nightmare just like NPM and its ilk are to me as well. Adding WP in my list was fraught for this level of response, and I realize now I should have left it off the list. It really doesn't do much for moving the conversation in the right direction

That's my point. At some point, people's fear of learning code is causing them to do things in ways that are unnecessary and overcomplicated, which is quite a bit ironic.

You say fear. I say unnecessary for task at hand. My mom doesn't need to learn how to code to make a website for her florist. She just needs a site that can host some basic information like contact info, gallery of example images, and maybe some cheesy "about" page that people feel like is oh so important.

We're obviously reading a developer centric forum where people seem to have a hard time seeing things from anything other than a developer's point of view. Have hammer, everything is a nail situation. People just not wanting to become a coder isn't because they are scared of it. They just don't want to do it. I don't want to be a florist. I don't go bitching to florists that there's not an easy way to make floral arrangements without learning basics nor does it make me scared of it. Whatever "fear" you want to imply really makes you sound out of touch with non-developers.

I realize that for the simple use cases like that it's fine. I'm talking about people at work using complicated workflows in "low code" tools or spreadsheets full of macros. At some point it's equally or more complex, just in a different way.

Having been involved in a “no code” product, I’ll just say that it’s a really crappy way to write programs. You’re better off creating a DSL of some sort and asking people to type. Demanding that people click the mouse three times to open an input box where they can type something and then doing that a few hundred times is not “better.” It’s infuriating.