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Um, I really don't think it's at East German Stasi-levels. Known dissidents were gaslighted, had objects in their homes moved around, and had informants reporting on them in their apartment buildings/family/workplace.

It's bad, it's dystopian, but it doesn't seem to be THAT bad yet.



The operative word is 'yet'. You're right. Things aren't that bad now, compared to the Stasi.

But the problem lies in the tools and information available. All it takes is for one of the parties in power to decide they want to use it for their own unscrupulous purposes. And suddenly, they have more information than the Stasi could have dreamed of.

There's no guarantee there will ever be anyone in power who wants to abuse this. But it's a dangerous situation we've put ourselves in.

If we're starting a betting pool, my bet would be on the system limping along as it is for the forseeable future. Average citizens won't even really notice the growing surveillance. Criminals will, but no one will care about them. Certain protest groups, like whatever form the future Occupy takes, will see the system used to their detriment, but ordinary people will still not care. Always safe to bet on apathy, and relatively safe to bet on the politicians / powers-that-be realizing they can already have most of what they want without creating a repressive hellhole--which would cause more economic and social problems than it would be worth.


While there are good examples in the past (FeeTinesAMady already mentioned Martin Luther King), remember the JTRIG documents about breaking up groups with social wedge issues and other and other divide-and-conquer tactics. If you can drive people apart by attacking potential leader[1] or separating key groups of people before those groups gain any momentum, you can probably skip the expensive and risky "Stasi-style-tactics" completely.

There's a similarity between the attack against Dr. King and the method described in the JTRIG documents: "COINTELPRO". Instead of being stopped by the Church Committee, the program probably got a renaming and reorg[2] to move away from the "failed branding". Regardless of the name, the tactics are being used (it's just modern marketing tricks).

It is easy to see the enemy that is loud and disruptive, and a lot harder to notice who is responsible for these newer, more subtle attacks that - especially when the attacker understands P.R. and branding

[1] and identifying relationship graphs ix exactly what you get from simple logs of telephone metadata. Throw a few JOIN clauses into your query, and you can do the COTRAVELER trick of extending those relationship graphs into many other areas.

[2] similar to how "Total Information Awareness" got renamed and moved around


Meta note: Every news organization that issued a "TIA is dead" story really needs to go back and make a retraction.


Serious question, do you think it's that bad for wikileaks employees or volunteers? Jacob Appelbaum claims it is and has moved to Germany where such things are living memory along with their overthrow. I'm inclined to believe him. I haven't seen evidence of his track record for telling lies is worse than government spokespeople and apologists on the general topic.


I know basically nothing about wikileaks. Given what the CIA/other agencies have done in the past, I guess it seems plausible.


My comment was limited to data collection only. Apologies if I appear to have one overstated my case. My hair caught on fire for a minute there.


The FBI does that. They've done it since J. Edgar Hoover. They did it to Martin Luther King.


Good point. My initial comment was thinking of the pervasive, doing-it-to-everybody style the Stasi achieved, which I guess isn't far off from the mass digital surveillance + individual targeting that is probably happening now.




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